Steve Jurvetson and The Metals Company on ocean mining, the EV market, and AI's tech impact | E1959
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Steve Jurvetson and Gerard Barron join Jason
- Steve Jurvetson and Gerard Barron join Jason Calacanis to discuss ocean mining, the EV market, and the impact of AI on technology.
EV market growth and challenges
- The global transition to electric vehicles (EVs) is well underway, with EV sales increasing by 52% year-over-year.
- Tesla and BYD in China are the leading competitors in the EV market.
- The massive growth in EV sales is stressing the global mineral market and causing geopolitical tensions.
- The environmentally heavy race to extract the required materials for EVs from the ground is a concern.
- Steve Jurvetson's guest is working on a solution to the challenges of EV production by looking to the ocean for minerals.
- Ocean mining offers the potential to extract minerals without the environmental damage caused by traditional mining methods.
- The Metals Company, co-founded by Gerard Barron, is developing technology for ocean mining and has already identified promising locations for mineral extraction.
- Ocean mining could provide a sustainable source of minerals for EV production and reduce the environmental impact of the EV transition.
- Artificial intelligence (AI) is having a major impact on technology, with advances in machine learning and natural language processing.
- AI is being used in various fields, including healthcare, finance, and transportation.
- AI has the potential to revolutionize industries and create new opportunities for innovation.
- However, there are also concerns about the potential negative impacts of AI, such as job displacement and privacy issues.
The mission of The Metals Company
- The Metals Company aims to collect polymetallic nodules from the ocean floor, which they refer to as "batteries in a rock."
- Steve Jurvetson, a founding partner of Future Ventures, is enthusiastic about the company's potential.
- Jurvetson believes in the future of sustainable transportation and the transition to electric vehicles.
- He emphasizes the importance of batteries in energy generation, storage, and transportation.
- Jurvetson expresses concerns about the potential shortage of raw materials, such as nickel, cobalt, copper, and manganese, needed for battery production.
- He criticizes the current practice of mining these materials from environmentally sensitive areas like tropical rainforests.
- The Metals Company proposes an alternative method of obtaining these raw materials by collecting polymetallic nodules from the ocean floor.
- These nodules are described as free-standing and not attached to anything, making them easier to collect.
- Jurvetson highlights the environmental benefits of ocean mining compared to traditional mining methods, as it takes place in an area with minimal life forms.
- The company aims to provide a geopolitically secure source of these materials for countries like the United States and the West, reducing reliance on China.
- Ocean mining offers the potential to minimize further climate change and environmental degradation caused by current mining practices.
Gerard Barron explains polymetallic nodules
- Polymetallic nodules rich in nickel, cobalt, and manganese were discovered on the ocean floor in the 1870s.
- The Clarion-Clipperton Zone, located off the coast of Mexico, holds the world's largest deposit of these metals.
- The Metals Company has been studying the ocean floor for over a decade and has applied for exploration and exploitation licenses from the International Seabed Authority.
- Commercial nodule collection is expected to begin in 2026 after regulatory approvals.
- The Metals Company uses robotic vessels to collect the nodules, which are then processed to extract the metals.
- The demand for these metals is expected to increase as more electric vehicles are produced.
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- Steve Jurvetson invested in the company because he loves the product.
Robotic vacuuming and ocean nodules
- The Metals Company uses a converted oil and gas drilling ship called The Hidden Gem for ocean mining.
- The Hidden Gem is connected to a riser, which is a vertical transport mechanism, and an electrical cable connected to a robot on the seafloor.
- The robot uses a jet of water to create an inverse pressure that lifts the nodules from the ocean floor.
- The company has conducted pilot collection and studied the environmental impacts of ocean mining.
- The Metals Company has spent $500 million over the last decade, much of it on scientific research to show the impact of ocean mining.
Environmentalists' perspectives on ocean mining
- Steve Jurvetson and Lex Fridman discuss the environmental impact of electric vehicles and the need for responsible resource extraction.
- Some environmentalists oppose any resource extraction, while others support environmentally beneficial methods.
- The best approach is to determine the most environmentally beneficial way to extract resources and generate energy.
- Resistance to carbon-neutral energy sources, such as nuclear energy, can have negative environmental consequences.
- The Metals Company has conducted extensive research on the environmental impacts of ocean mining and found that it can significantly reduce the environmental impact of nickel production compared to land-based mining.
- Steve Jurvetson criticizes those who oppose ocean mining while supporting environmentally destructive practices on land and compares ocean mining to nuclear power, arguing that it is a better option than burning coal and oil.
Steve Jurvetson and The Metals Company on ocean mining, the EV market, and AI's tech impact | E1959
- Steve Jurvetson, a venture capitalist, discusses various topics with The Metals Company, an ocean mining company.
- The Metals Company is developing technology to extract valuable metals from the ocean floor.
- The company believes that ocean mining can be done in a sustainable way and can help reduce the environmental impact of traditional mining.
- The Metals Company is currently working on a pilot project in the Pacific Ocean.
- Jurvetson believes that the electric vehicle (EV) market is poised for significant growth.
- He cites several factors driving EV adoption, including government incentives, falling battery costs, and increasing consumer demand for sustainable transportation.
- Jurvetson predicts that EVs will eventually replace gasoline-powered vehicles.
- Jurvetson discusses the potential impact of artificial intelligence (AI) on various industries.
- He believes that AI will have a transformative effect on sectors such as healthcare, finance, and transportation.
- Jurvetson emphasizes the importance of ethical considerations in the development and use of AI.
Deep dive into VC with Steve Jurvetson
- Steve Jurvetson and The Metals Company discussed ocean mining, the EV market, and the technological impact of AI.
- The Metals Company is an investment in deep science and technology with a long-term portfolio approach.
- Ocean mining has the potential for significant returns but also carries risks.
- The Metals Company controls three license areas for ocean mining, sponsored by developing countries.
- China is the largest license holder for ocean mining, with five exploration licenses granted by the International Seabed Authority.
- Royalties for ocean mining are being negotiated, and there are rules and regulations around license usage and duration.
- The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) has provisions to prevent squatting in the ocean.
- Exploration licenses are given for a year and can be divided into three five-year plans.
- License holders must invest in improving the ground to be eligible for a 30-year exploitation license.
- The Metals Company has a six to seven-year advantage over other license applicants due to its efficient team and readiness for production.
- Steve Jurvetson expresses surprise at the orderly and efficient process of the regulatory body for ocean mining.
- Unlike the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which has not approved a single thing in 45 years, this body has a deadline for finalizing regulations.
- If the regulations are not finalized by the deadline, companies can commence operations, similar to the FDA's de facto approval process.
- There is a lower threshold for commencement voting, preventing hold-ups due to disagreements among nations.
- Steve Jurvetson mentions his investment in The Metals Company and his past association with Steve Jobs.
- Jurvetson worked with Steve Jobs and describes him as a unique individual.
Geopolitical aspects of deep-sea mining and future outlook
- The Metals Company is working on ocean mining to extract valuable metals like nickel, copper, and cobalt from polymetallic nodules on the ocean floor.
- Ocean mining offers a more sustainable alternative to traditional land-based mining and could reduce the environmental impact of rainforest nickel mining.
- The company aims to make the US mineral independent by reducing reliance on foreign sources of critical metals.
- Steve Jobs remained passionate about Apple during his "Exile" era, discussing its future and expressing a desire to return.
- In 1994, Jobs visited Jurvetson's house, signed his Apple extended keyboard, and shared his dislike for function keys.
- Steve Jobs and Elon Musk share a similar sensitivity to visual imperfections in product design.
- Jurvetson believes Apple needs new leadership to drive innovation, citing Microsoft's turnaround as an example.
- Large companies like Apple or Google make significant impacts by entering new businesses rather than restructuring existing ones.
- Apple should explore new markets or industries to foster innovation instead of focusing on incremental improvements.
- AI has the potential to reshape the world like the mobility age, but envisioning specific products is challenging.
- The speaker's strength lies in identifying unique adjacencies to big unmet needs and recognizing innovative ideas.
The age of AI and its impact on technology
- Steve Jurvetson suggests that Apple could revolutionize the housing industry, similar to how they disrupted the music industry.
- The construction industry has faced declining labor productivity over the past 30 years, making it ripe for innovation and disruption.
- Jurvetson highlights challenges faced by companies that receive excessive funding, including difficulty in raising capital for competitors and disruption of industry pricing points.
- The Metals Company is actively hiring environmental scientists, with over 100 scientists currently working on their program through partnerships.
- The Metals Company discussed ocean mining, the EV market, and AI's tech impact with Steve Jurvetson.
- The Metals Company operates with a capital-light business model and relies on partners like Allseas for expertise in oil and gas deposition.
- The company focuses on permitting, social license, and environmental aspects.
- Their website is medals.co, and the ticker symbol is TMC.