The Big Gamble: Sports Betting | A Second Look Podcast

The Evolution and Rise of Sports Betting

• In 1969, correspondent Harry Reasoner first covered the topic of gambling for 60 Minutes, and at that time, placing a bet on sports was more challenging than it is today (16s).
• In the 1990s, it became easier to place a bet, and sports gambling networks were getting more sophisticated to try and avoid the heat, with some bookies moving their operations offshore to places like the Dominican Republic (42s).
• The methods of sports betting have evolved over time, from toll-free 800 numbers to the worldwide web, making it possible to place bets from the comfort of one's home (1m8s).
• Despite its evolution, sports betting mostly stayed on the periphery of society due to the stigma attached to it, with high-profile athletes like Pete Rose being caught betting on their own sports (1m32s).

The Impact of Legalized Sports Betting

• However, with the Supreme Court's 2019 ruling that it is up to the states to decide whether to legalize sports gambling, the industry has gone mainstream, with many Americans getting into gambling (2m0s).
• The widespread availability of sports betting has led to concerns about addiction, with some people gambling excessively, even in unusual situations like in the shower or while driving (2m26s).

60 Minutes' Coverage of Gambling

• Minutes has reported nearly two dozen stories on gambling over the years, including a cautionary tale from 1976 that exposed the personal story of a family affected by gambling addiction (2m42s).
• According to Dan Rather's 1976 report, about 40 million people in the country regularly gamble, and the psychiatric community has identified certain factors that contribute to compulsive gambling, which is similar to addiction to alcohol (3m36s).
• Larry North, a long-time advocate for gambling, has spoken out about the issue, highlighting the need for awareness and support for those affected by gambling addiction (4m11s).
• The concept of gambling as an addiction was relatively new in the 1970s, and people didn't think about it unless they had a personal connection to someone with a gambling problem (4m22s).

The Story of Irving North

• Dan Rather's story featured Irving, a 44-year-old Long Island man who had been gambling for 30 years and was completely broke, feeling he had no life ahead of him unless he could stop his addiction (4m57s).
• Irving's 15-year-old son Larry often accompanied him to the racetrack and bookmakers, and Larry's father took him everywhere, exposing him to the world of gambling (5m31s).

Larry North's Life and Advocacy

• Larry North, now in his early 60s, has built a career in the fitness industry and is a local celebrity in Dallas, having written books, been on radio and TV, and founded the Texas council on problem and compulsive gambling (6m14s).
• Larry served as the president of the Texas council on problem and compulsive gambling for about seven years, certifying counselors to help people with addictive problems related to gambling (6m36s).

Irving North's Addiction and Consequences

• In 1976, Dan Rather spoke with Larry when he was 15, and Larry recalled enjoying himself at the track with his father but eventually rooting for his father to lose so he wouldn't have money to gamble (6m53s).
• Larry's parents allowed 60 Minutes to document their struggles with gambling for national TV, possibly because it was the peak of the madness in their lives and they wanted to raise awareness (7m17s).
• Irving's wife was asked by a 60 Minutes producer about her role in enabling his addiction, and she recalled trying to make him stop through various means, including ranting, raving, and threatening to leave him (7m52s).
• Larry found it emotional to watch the clip of his mother's interview, as it brought back many memories (8m6s).
• Irving North's compulsive gambling led to extreme consequences, including selling furniture and his wife's car to fund his addiction, and even spending time in a federal prison for swindling banks out of over $140,000, equivalent to 3/4 of a million dollars today (8m58s).
• After being let out on probation, North was caught at a racetrack and had to face a judge again, who reduced his sentence but required him to attend treatment and Gamblers Anonymous meetings as part of his sentencing (9m42s).

North's Treatment and Deception

• North attended the compulsive gambling treatment program at the Veterans Administration Hospital in Brecksville, Ohio, where he underwent a physical examination and met with his psychologist, Dr. Alita Glen (10m6s).
• North's treatment was documented by 60 Minutes, and he expressed his desire to overcome his addiction and avoid returning to prison (10m48s).
• Despite his public statements, North was secretly teaching other patients in the treatment program how to swindle banks and would sneak out at night to go gambling (11m29s).
• The story of North's treatment was featured on a 1976 episode of 60 Minutes, and his son, Larry, recalls watching the episode and knowing that his father was not being truthful about his intentions (11m41s).

Recognition of Gambling Addiction

• The medical establishment has since recognized gambling addiction as a legitimate condition, and other high-profile cases, such as that of baseball player Pete Rose, have highlighted the dangers of compulsive gambling (11m58s).

Dan Rather's Follow-Up Story

• Dan Rather did a story for 60 Minutes about compulsive gambling 10 years ago, featuring a gambler named Irving North and his 15-year-old son Larry. (12m13s)
• Irving North was later found to have spent more than six of the 10 years in prison for passing bad checks and parole violations, and he admitted to being a compulsive gambler, stating that the only thing that had changed about him was that he dropped all pretenses of seeking recovery. (12m57s)
• Irving North compared the thrill of gambling to sex, stating that when something is thrilling, you're not going to stop, and he had returned to his old ways despite his family's efforts to move on. (13m18s)

The North Family's Aftermath

• Irving North's family, including his son Larry, had made big moves since the first story was broadcast, with Larry's mom moving the family to Las Vegas to get away from Irving, who was banned from the city in the 70s. (13m32s)
• Larry North spoke about his abnormal upbringing and the intensity with which he still felt about his father's actions, stating that he would not allow his father to come back into his life even if he claimed to be cured. (14m8s)

Understanding Compulsive Gambling

• Compulsive gamblers often don't exhibit obvious signs of addiction, but those who know them are sure they are responding to the same pressures as addicts of alcohol or other substances. (15m11s)
• The medical establishment has begun to recognize compulsive gambling as a real illness, similar to other addictions, and hospitals have started to treat it, with some cases being paid for by medical insurance. (15m32s)
• Dr. Robert Kuster started the first treatment program for gamblers in 1972 and believes that compulsive gamblers can be identified through surveys, but not by their appearance. (15m51s)
• Dr. Robert Kuster, a pioneer in understanding the effects of compulsive gambling, developed a program for compulsive gamblers at the Veterans Hospital in Brecksville after being approached by members of Gamblers Anonymous, and he successfully pushed for pathological gambling to be recognized in the Third Edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (16m23s).
• Dr. Kuster defined a compulsive gambler as someone whose gambling affects or compromises their life in family, vocational, and personal areas, eventually leading to a loss of function, a definition that has stood the test of time (16m59s).

The Case of Pete Rose

• Pete Rose, a baseball legend, was convicted of betting on sports and was given a lifetime suspension from baseball, although he denied betting on baseball, a claim he maintained until his death (17m24s).
• Rose's denial of betting on baseball was seen as a sign of addiction by some, including sports writer Mike Lupica, who noted that addicts often deny their behavior (18m40s).
• Rose's lifetime ban was never lifted, and he was never inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame, spending his later years in relative exile from the baseball establishment (19m13s).

Larry North's Final Moments with His Father

• Larry North, whose father Irving was a compulsive gambler, knows firsthand how a gambling addiction can eclipse everything else in a person's life, and he recalls his father's addiction affecting him even in his final moments (19m34s).
• Irving North died from bone cancer, and Larry remembers visiting him in his final moments, forgiving him, and expressing regret for how things turned out, only to discover that his father had passed away 30 minutes earlier (19m50s).
• Irving North, who died over 30 years ago, believed that gambling would become the biggest industry in the world someday, with millions of people following his lead, and his words have proven prophetic (21m13s).

Technology's Impact on Gambling Addiction

• Technology has supercharged gambling addictions, making it a huge part of the sports culture, with the industry becoming increasingly accepted in popular culture (21m58s).
• John Wertheim, a correspondent at 60 Minutes and a long-time sports reporter and writer at Sports Illustrated, has covered sports betting twice for 60 Minutes, in 2019 and 2024, and considers it one of the biggest sports stories of our time (22m23s).
• Sports betting was long seen as a vice, but it is now widely accepted and has become a huge part of the sports experience, with the stigma attached to it decreasing over time (23m3s).
• The rise of technology, including fantasy leagues and online betting, has made it easier for people to gamble on sports, and the industry has become increasingly intertwined with the sports world (23m56s).

The Sports Industry's Embrace of Betting

• The professional sports leagues initially missed out on the revenue generated by sports betting, but they have since taken notice and are now involved in the industry (24m27s).
• Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA, wrote an op-ed in The New York Times in 2014, highlighting the need for the sports leagues to be involved in the sports betting industry (24m36s).
• A turning point in the sports industry's view on gambling came when a prominent figure acknowledged that gambling was already happening and suggested embracing it as part of the sports fan experience, using the phrase "sunlight is disinfectant" to argue that legitimate, open gambling was preferable to underground alternatives (24m44s).
• The 2018 Supreme Court decision overturned the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act (PASPA), allowing states to decide whether to permit sports betting, leading to a significant shift in the regulatory landscape (25m23s).
• New Jersey was a key driver in challenging PASPA, and after the Supreme Court decision, many states began to legalize sports betting, with 38 states and Washington D.C. now permitting it (26m26s).
• The growth of sports betting has led to a significant increase in revenue, with some estimates suggesting over $100 billion wagered on sports, although exact numbers vary (26m30s).

John Wertheim's Re-examination of Sports Betting

• John Wertheim was convinced to re-examine the sports betting industry due to its growing presence in popular culture, including its impact on young people who are not necessarily sports fans, as observed by his assistant (26m50s).
• Despite concerns that sports betting would corrupt competition, no such crisis has occurred, but there has been a rise in young gambling addicts over the past five years (28m0s).

Joe Russillo's Story

• Joe Russillo's problem with sports betting started in high school, but it escalated in 2022 when sports betting apps became available in his home state of New York, allowing him to place bets anywhere and at any time (28m7s).
• Russillo became more interested in the result of the game rather than the game itself, and he found it easy to place bets with just a swipe on his phone (28m16s).
• To overcome his addiction, Russillo now uses a flip phone, which does not have many apps, including those for sports betting (28m37s).

Changing Demographics and Awareness

• The typical image of a gambling addict is a middle-aged man, but it is more prominent in the younger generation, and awareness of gambling addiction has risen since the 70s and 80s (28m49s).
• The path to recovery from sports betting addiction is challenging, especially with the widespread use of mobile technology, which can have a multiplier effect on addiction (29m7s).

Criticism of Sports Betting Promotion

• Russillo thinks that sports betting is portrayed as cool on league-sponsored broadcasts, and he is angry about it, feeling that it is a vice that should be taboo (29m50s).

Sports Betting Companies' Tactics

• Sports betting companies use advanced methods to keep customers engaged, including tailored offers and push notifications, as seen in data from a UK customer of Flutter, the owner of FanDuel (31m4s).
• The data showed that the company had 93 different data points on the customer, including their betting habits and life stage, which were used to encourage them to continue betting (31m17s).
• The company also used tactics like "win back" to target customers who had stopped betting for a while and try to get them to come back (31m33s).
• Some individuals make a significant number of deposits to sports betting companies, with one example showing 2,514 deposits in a year, averaging about seven deposits per day, indicating that these companies have extensive data on users, including potential problem gamblers (31m41s).
• Sports betting companies, such as Flutter, DraftKings, and FanDuel, claim to take steps to protect vulnerable customers, including banning them outright, but they declined to provide specific instances of such actions (32m11s).

Addressing Problem Gambling

• Bill Miller, president of the American Gaming Association, acknowledges that problem gambling is a real issue, but it is unclear whether it has increased or become more noticeable due to the legalization of sports betting (32m44s).
• Despite high-tech designs to attract gamblers, those seeking to quit are often directed to a 1-800 number, which is considered an outdated solution, and more modern guardrails have been proposed but not widely implemented (33m13s).
• The lack of overarching federal regulation has enabled the rapid growth of sports betting, with some states being more proactive in recognizing problem gambling and earmarking funds, but it remains a state-by-state issue (33m56s).
• New legislation has been introduced in Congress to put federal restrictions on how bets can be placed and how gambling can be advertised, which may lead to more sensible regulation and legislation (34m29s).

Reflections and Future Outlook

• Looking back at older stories on sports gambling, it is clear that the issue of problem gambling has been present for decades, but the ease of access to sports betting through mobile devices has potentially made the problem worse (34m52s).
• There will likely be more stories about sports gambling in the future, as it is a fundamental urge, but people may look back and question how it was allowed to flourish (35m39s).

Impact of 60 Minutes' Coverage

• The continued coverage of gambling and addiction by 60 Minutes has had an impact, as it exposed the harm it can cause to people, especially in its 1976 and 1986 episodes (36m11s).
• The exposure of the harm caused by gambling has had a tremendous impact on helping gamblers, according to people involved in helping them (36m28s).
• One of the individuals involved in the series had previously reached out to 60 Minutes years ago to share their story and provide hope for people struggling with gambling addiction (36m46s).

Production Credits and Acknowledgements

• The episode of 60 Minutes, "A Second Look," was co-produced by Hazel May, Brian, and Jamie Benson, with additional producing credits going to Julie Holstein and others (37m22s).
• The episode received support from various individuals and teams, including the crews and editors of the original pieces, the team at krld radio in Dallas, and Dr. Heather Chapman (38m11s).
• The episode was made possible by the incredible team at CBS News archives, and the podcast will continue with another episode next week (38m22s).