The government's plan to break up Google | The Vergecast

Intro (0s)

• The Vergecast is a podcast discussing various topics including web browsers, their owners, and potential outcomes if no one owns them (2s).
• The hosts, including David Pierce and Lauren Goode, discuss the latest news, which they refer to as "Lauren Goode news" (24s).
• The US Department of Justice (DOJ) has proposed a plan to address Google's antitrust issues in search, potentially involving the sale of Chrome (32s).
• Google has reacted to the DOJ's proposal, and there are ongoing antitrust lawsuits, including one involving Apple (42s).
• The hosts also mention AI-related chaos and upcoming gadgets, as well as a "lightning round" segment (48s).
• David Pierce shares personal news about purchasing an M4 Mac Mini, which he finds to be "glorious" (1m1s).
• The hosts discuss the computer's capabilities, with David mentioning that his previous M1 Mac Mini was not slow for his purposes, but he needed more RAM (2m6s).
• David defends his decision to buy a new computer, stating that he chose to prioritize having a powerful computer over being "good at life" (2m40s).
• The hosts also joke about starting a business where they travel in a van, breaking old computers, and playing video games (3m35s).

DOJ's Proposal Against Google (4m45s)

• The US Department of Justice (DOJ) has proposed a plan to break up Google, with multiple anti-trust lawsuits currently ongoing against the company, making it difficult to predict the ultimate outcome and the creation of a new Google (4m46s).
• One of the lawsuits involves Google paying Apple for search defaults in Safari, with Google found guilty of having a monopoly in search, and the proposed remedies are currently being discussed (5m25s).
• Another case, set to have closing arguments on Monday, revolves around the adtech industry and Google's role in connecting publishers and advertisers through its technology, which is considered a crucial aspect of Google's business (5m37s).
• Google's adtech is closely tied to its Chrome browser, which is the largest web browser and a key platform for displaying ads, with Google paying for default placement on other browsers due to its inability to run Chrome on the iPhone (6m4s).
• The proposal put forward by the DOJ is part of the search case and is not a final decision, with another trial set to debate the proposal, and the outcome of the adtech case still pending (6m46s).
• The timeline for both cases is complex, with the adtech case potentially reaching a decision by the end of the year, followed by a remedies phase, and the search case having a remedies trial in April (6m54s).
• Google is expected to appeal the search case, and the loser of the adtech case will likely appeal as well, making the final outcome still far away (7m25s).
• The proposal to break up Google is not imminent, with many factors still to be determined, including the inauguration of a new administration and the confirmation of a new Attorney General (7m47s).
• The DOJ's proposed final judgment includes a plan to address Google's monopoly in search, but the specifics of the proposal are still being discussed (8m13s).
• The government has filed a concrete plan to restore competition in the online search market, specifically targeting Google, with the intention of taking the case to trial (8m27s).
• The plan includes a proposal for Google to divest Chrome, which the government believes is a critical access point for Google search that needs to be separated from the company (9m0s).
• Divesting Android is also being considered, but the government is holding off on that for now, leaving it as an incentive for Google to comply with the proposed remedies and as a potential future action if the other remedies fail to restore competition (9m21s).
• The government's proposal includes a range of remedies that Google must comply with, and the threat of divesting Android is being used as a looming threat to ensure Google's cooperation (9m42s).
• The plan is a more concrete version of a previous high-level proposal, and the government will go through a discovery process to gather more information and evidence to support their case (8m39s).
• The government's goal is to restore competition in the online search market, and they believe that separating Chrome and potentially Android from Google is necessary to achieve this goal (9m11s).

Implications for Google (10m1s)

• The Department of Justice (DOJ) wants to have multiple options available to address Google's anti-competitive behavior, as the case will take years and the landscape may change, especially with the increasing importance of AI in search (10m2s).
• The DOJ's proposal includes preventing Google from entering into exclusionary agreements with phone and browser makers to be the default search engine on their platforms (10m59s).
• The DOJ wants to stop Google from exchanging something of value for preferred placement or boxing out rivals from these platforms (11m22s).
• This proposal is seen as the most straightforward and expected outcome, as it aligns with the complaint and the judge's ruling on Google's anti-competitive behavior (11m54s).
• However, the DOJ also wants to take aggressive steps to unwind Google's lead built over the last 15 years, which could involve breaking Google in half and giving others the advantages Google has had (12m50s).
• The goal is to allow others to catch up with Google, as the DOJ believes that simply stopping Google's anti-competitive agreements may not be enough to address the issue (13m2s).
• The DOJ's approach is seen as backward-looking, holding companies accountable for past conduct, even if they are no longer engaging in it (13m13s).
• The proposal also includes considering the impact of AI on search and ensuring that any remedies imposed are not obsolete tomorrow (10m25s).
• The US Department of Justice (DOJ) aims to break the self-reinforcing cycle of Google's success, where its good search engine attracts users, who provide data that Google uses to improve its search engine, making it even more attractive to users, thereby creating a monopoly (13m51s).
• To achieve this, the DOJ wants to open-source Google's query data, search index, and information from YouTube searches, making it available to anyone who wants to run a similar service at marginal cost (14m19s).
• This approach would require Google to give away its competitive advantages for free, allowing others to catch up (14m37s).
• If successful, this plan could significantly impact Google's ability to make money, especially when combined with the ongoing adtech case, which also involves contracts and pressure (14m48s).
• The DOJ also wants Google to stop preferencing its search engine on YouTube and allow other search engines to access the platform (15m9s).
• Despite potential challenges, Google may still be able to generate revenue by selling access to its APIs, index, and search results, and leveraging its engineering expertise to create attractive products (15m27s).
• The proposed restructuring of Google could lead to a more open search engine and YouTube platform, allowing other companies to build search products on top of Google's utility-like search engine (16m48s).
• The US Department of Justice (DOJ) is proposing a plan to break up Google, which includes forcing the company to sell its browser business and restricting its ability to make money from default search, with the goal of restoring competition in the market (17m5s).
• The proposal is seen as a huge swing by the DOJ, and it's likely that the judge will be skeptical of any measures that appear to be picking winners and losers, instead focusing on restoring competition (17m46s).
• The DOJ's Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust, Jonathan Kanter, believes that consent decrees, where companies promise to behave and are monitored, don't work, and instead wants to see big structural changes, such as breaking up the company (18m51s).
• The courts tend to agree with this approach, as they prefer not to be involved in ongoing compliance and monitoring, and instead want to see clear and decisive action (19m17s).
• Google is expected to push back against the proposal, with its Chief Legal Officer, Kent Walker, already describing it as a "radical interventionist agenda" that will harm America (19m41s).
• The trial will involve a discovery process, where witnesses will be called and evidence will be presented, to determine what remedies are reasonable to impose on Google (20m11s).
• The trial will assume that Google has an illegal monopoly, and will focus on what measures are necessary to restore competition, with the DOJ and Google likely to present opposing views (20m19s).
• The US Department of Justice (DOJ) is considering options to break up Google, including forcing the company to spin off Android and Chrome into its own company, which could make sense as both are search businesses (20m44s).
• Another option is to force Google to white-label its search engine and make it available to everyone, allowing others to compete with Google on user experience, which could be interesting and lead to new ideas about how search could work (21m5s).
• However, it's unclear how both options can be implemented simultaneously, as Google's white-label search engine would be better if Google controls Android and Chrome, allowing it to access data that it would then have to share with others (21m40s).
• Google has claimed that it doesn't use Chrome click data to inform search, but this claim has been disputed, and it's unclear what data Google actually uses to improve its search engine (22m0s).
• The goal of building the best search infrastructure for the whole internet could be achieved by allowing Google to control its own products and data, rather than forcing it to spin off or white-label its search engine (22m25s).
• Instead of making Google's search engine worse and giving it to everyone, the focus should be on creating a competitive search market, which could be achieved if Apple were to build a search engine using its own data and resources (22m57s).
• Apple has the capability and resources to build a search engine, but has instead focused on other projects, such as its car initiative, which was partly funded by Google (23m21s).
• The proposed break-up of Google may not achieve the desired outcome of creating a competitive search market, and could instead lead to a worse search market overall (23m36s).
• The government's plan to break up Google involves licensing Google's search results and click and query data to other search engines, which would allow them to create high-quality search engines and compete with Google more effectively (24m0s).
• This plan would give companies like Apple a jump start in creating a quality search engine by combining the licensed data with their own data and engineering (24m14s).
• If the plan is implemented, developers would be able to create a Google-level quality search engine with just a few API calls, making it easier for companies like DuckDuckGo to compete with Google on both privacy and search results quality (24m49s).
• The plan would also allow companies to compete on AI, interface, and other aspects of search engines, rather than being constrained by their inability to access Google's search results data (25m10s).
• The government's plan is motivated by the idea that Google's dominance in search is due to a "flywheel" effect, where its large market share and access to data make it difficult for others to compete, and that by giving others access to this data, they can create a more level playing field (25m22s).
• The plan is not without its challenges, and some argue that it may not be enough to break Google's dominance, citing Microsoft's failed attempts to compete with Google in search despite having access to similar data and technology (26m10s).
• The government's plan would be enforced for 10 years, which is seen as long enough to create a dynamic shift in the market, but not so long that it would stifle innovation (27m4s).
• The plan's success would depend on the ability of other companies to effectively utilize the licensed data and create high-quality search engines that can compete with Google (25m49s).

Trump's Antitrust Efforts (40m23s)

• Trump's administration has expressed anger towards Google, suggesting they will take action against the company if they do not treat him better, with the possibility of breaking them up (40m27s).
• Anderson Horowitz could potentially find a way to buy Chrome or fund competitors to build ad-funded search engines, making it easier for new companies to enter the market (40m42s).
• Breaking up Google's market could make the search engine industry available for anyone to enter, creating new opportunities for venture capitalists and potentially leading to a hundred billion dollar a year industry being up for grabs (41m14s).
• The first Trump administration's antitrust efforts resulted in two main outcomes: T-Mobile buying Sprint and creating a new wireless carrier, and opposing AT&T's acquisition of Time Warner due to Trump's dislike of CNN (41m26s).
• The opposition to AT&T's acquisition of Time Warner was ultimately unsuccessful, and the deal went through despite the administration's efforts (41m57s).
• The previous administration's antitrust efforts have set a precedent for how Trump may deal with Google and Chrome in the future, although the exact outcome is uncertain (42m11s).
• It is possible that Trump's administration could force Google to spin off parts of the company, potentially leading to the creation of new companies or the expansion of existing ones, such as Google becoming the equivalent of Boost Mobile (42m30s).

Apple's Antitrust Case (42m36s)

• The Google case has concluded with a guilty verdict for having a monopoly, and the remedies phase is underway, while another case is nearing its conclusion with a judge's decision imminent, and Apple's case is still pending, having not gone to trial yet (42m36s).
• Apple has requested a dismissal of its case, and it's possible that the incoming Trump Administration could drop the case, given Apple's significant manufacturing presence in China and Trump's plans to impose tariffs on Chinese goods (43m2s).
• Tim Cook has successfully navigated similar situations in the past, such as excusing Apple products from tariffs during Trump's previous administration, and it's possible he may be able to manage his way out of the antitrust lawsuit (43m18s).
• However, the decision to continue or drop the case ultimately lies with the Department of Justice (DOJ), which is supposed to be independent of the presidency, although it's unclear how much influence Trump may exert (43m55s).
• The case is currently in the pre-trial phase, with a motion to dismiss having been argued, and the judge will decide whether any part of the case can move forward (44m11s).
• It's possible that the judge may narrow the case but not fully dismiss it, and the DOJ will then decide how to proceed (44m26s).
• Apple's position with Trump may be more favorable due to its past interactions, but it would be unusual for the DOJ to drop the case entirely, and such a move could be seen as corruption (44m36s).
• The question remains what concessions Apple may be willing to make in exchange for a favorable outcome, such as tariffs or the North Carolina factory project (45m45s).
• The government's plan to break up Google is uncertain, as the outcome may depend on changes in administration, similar to the Microsoft case, which resulted in consent decrees instead of breakups (46m9s).
• Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, may be encouraged by shareholders to stay on for at least four more years (46m24s).
• The rise of fake factories, similar to Foxconn, is expected to continue, with new ones likely to emerge in the future (46m34s).
• The episode is sponsored by AWS, which offers generative AI tools to power businesses forward with security and speed (46m57s).
• Ipsy, a beauty subscription service, is also a sponsor, offering personalized beauty products to customers' doors, including monthly subscriptions like Glam Bag and BoxyCharm (47m9s).
• Ipsy's Glam Bag is a curated selection of makeup, skincare, and hair care products from top brands, worth more than the subscription cost, making it a high-end beauty experience without the high price tag (47m26s).
• Ipsy subscriptions can be redeemed at the recipient's convenience, making it a gift that keeps on giving throughout the year (47m59s).

Amazon's Alexa and AI Challenges (48m10s)

• Miro's Innovation workspace is a platform that helps teams collaborate and innovate, with features such as AI tools, automated syncing, and AI-generated summaries, available at miro.com (48m32s).
• The Trump Administration is mentioned, and it's noted that some listeners may stop listening to the podcast when his name is mentioned (49m34s).
• The podcast will be discussing gadgets, but also some politics, as everything is connected to politics (49m49s).
• A humorous idea is proposed for an Uber option with a giant American flag, called "Uber Patriot" or "Uber Raptor" (50m13s).
• The tech industry is facing questions about the future, and the podcast will be discussing various companies and their strategies (50m39s).
• Amazon's next version of Alexa is rumored to be delayed due to performance issues, with some reports suggesting it's still too slow (50m51s).
• The delay has been leaked several times, and it's unclear when the new version of Alexa will be released, with some speculation that it may not be ready until the end of November (51m10s).
• There are conflicting reports about the new version of Alexa, with some leaks suggesting it will be a major improvement, while others indicate it may be problematic (51m35s).
• The podcast will be discussing various companies, including Amazon, and their strategies for competing with Open AI (51m47s).
• Amazon suffered significantly from the first wave of chatbots, with many wondering why Alexa wasn't already capable of performing similar tasks, given the company's focus on voice interface technology (52m3s).
• Amazon's goal was for Alexa to become the primary interface, similar to Windows, but the company has struggled to deliver on this vision, with its technology still being too slow (52m22s).
• Google reacted to ChatGPT by productizing its existing technology, which it had been working on internally for a long time, and has since made significant progress with its Gemini technology (52m57s).
• Amazon, on the other hand, has struggled to build the underlying capabilities necessary to compete with ChatGPT, despite having a 10-year head start with Alexa (53m36s).
• Amazon soft-launched a chatbot-like technology over a year ago, but it has become clear that building the technology is the hard part, and the company has been unable to deliver on its promises (53m53s).
• One possible solution for Amazon is to pay OpenAI to use its technology, but this would still require significant work to integrate with Alexa's existing capabilities (54m27s).
• Some companies, such as Anthropic, are offering alternative solutions that could potentially be more cost-effective for Amazon, but it's unclear whether this would be a viable option (55m0s).
• Amazon has hundreds of millions of devices that support its voice assistant, Alexa, and a big ecosystem of devices that work with it, making it easier to build the underlying part of the voice assistant, but this is not the easy part as it seems (56m23s).
• The existing voice assistants, such as Alexa, Siri, and Google Assistant, are currently architected in a way that makes it difficult to make them incrementally better with AI, and it feels like these are dead ends (57m9s).
• Apple has decided to punt its voice assistant to chat GBT, but even that is not the part where you talk to the phone and it goes and does stuff for you (56m45s).
• The basic problem is that on one hand, some people believe that AGI can be built on current hardware, while on the other hand, companies like Amazon are struggling to make their voice assistants work properly (57m54s).
• Amazon is making deals with partners to do tasks that its voice assistant cannot do, instead of trying to do everything itself, which is a different approach to building a voice assistant (58m28s).
• Panos Panay was brought in to lead Amazon's voice assistant efforts, and she is a strong product leader who can make calls and drive the project forward (57m44s).
• The current state of voice assistants is that they are not getting significantly better, and even small tasks, such as setting reminders or making calls, can be difficult for them to accomplish (55m46s).
• The comparison between Amazon's Alexa and Apple's Siri is not accurate, as Siri is not getting better over time, and even simple tasks can be difficult for it to accomplish (55m35s).
• Amazon is shifting its approach to AI by partnering with companies like Uber, DoorDash, and Ticketmaster to provide services through its Alexa platform, rather than relying on its own AI to interact with websites (58m34s).
• This approach raises questions about transparency, fees, and data sharing, but it may lead to a more integrated and user-friendly experience (59m11s).
• Amazon's decision to partner with other companies may be a sign that it recognizes the limitations of its own AI capabilities and is willing to work with experts in specific areas (59m28s).
• The company has the resources to make this approach work, unlike smaller companies that may have to rely on "fake" AI solutions (59m54s).
• Amazon has announced new Echo Show devices, including a 21-inch model that is essentially a TV with a stand and remote, which may appeal to people who like having TVs in their kitchens (1h0m16s).
• The new Echo Shows have features like adaptive lighting and photo display, although the photo quality may not be as good as some other devices (1h0m45s).
• Some people use devices like the Nest Hub or Echo Show in their kitchens to watch videos, set timers, or display photos, but others may prefer to use a larger TV or their phones (1h0m54s).
• Google has a plan to create a device that acts as a central hub for smart home control, featuring built-in cameras for video calling, Wi-Fi Thread, and Zig radios for smart home connectivity, aiming to simplify the process of controlling various smart devices in the home (1h2m2s).
• The device is intended to be the primary point of control for smart home devices, allowing users to connect and control various devices from a single interface, and also serve as a TV and a device to talk to (1h2m26s).
• The idea is to make it easy for users to buy devices and control them from their iPhone or voice assistants, with the hub acting as a central server to connect everything (1h2m35s).
• This approach is seen as a more confident step towards simplifying smart home control, compared to Apple's approach of requiring a separate controller for each room (1h2m59s).
• Having a single screen with big buttons can make a smart home more usable for actual people, as it provides a simple and intuitive way to control devices (1h3m20s).
• Despite the progress made in smart home technology, there are still many ways to control devices, which can be overwhelming for users, as evidenced by the numerous ways to turn lights on and off in the speaker's home (1h3m33s).
• The speaker shares a personal anecdote about their partner, Becky, who was able to notice and complain about the wrong color of the Hue Lights in their kitchen, demonstrating the complexity of smart home control and the need for a simpler solution (1h4m4s).
• The speaker notes that there are many ways to fix the issue, but the complexity of the system can be overwhelming for users, highlighting the need for a more streamlined and user-friendly approach to smart home control (1h4m40s).

Sonos and TV Streaming Rumors (1h4m58s)

• A person's wife prefers to use a physical button on an old iPhone to control the lighting in their home, rather than using voice commands with the nearby Nest Hub, which does not support HomeKit scenes (1h4m58s).
• This situation highlights the problem with many smart home systems, which often have redundant and inefficient ways of accomplishing tasks (1h5m53s).
• The person notes that a more straightforward solution would be to simply walk up to a device and adjust the settings manually, rather than relying on voice commands or complex smart home systems (1h6m10s).
• The person has a "movie time" voice command that turns off the lights in one room, but notes that it's not a very complex or impressive feature, despite being amusing to use (1h6m46s).
• The person is hopeful that the upcoming "Matter" smart home standard will help to simplify and improve the functionality of their smart home system (1h7m9s).
• There have been rumors that Sonos is planning to release a TV streamer, which would be a logical next step for the company given its focus on soundbars and home theater systems (1h7m31s).
• The rumored Sonos TV streamer is expected to cost between $150 and $200, and will reportedly use an operating system called "Ventura" developed by a company called "The Trade Desk" (1h7m56s).
• The Trade Desk, an advertising company, has launched a smart TV operating system called Ventura, which was previously reported on but initially denied by the company (1h8m31s).
• Ventura appears to be a platform for showing ads and running services like Netflix, with various partners, including heads of advertising at streaming services and Sonos, expressing excitement about the opportunity (1h8m58s).
• Sonos' involvement in Ventura is seen as a way for the company to generate revenue outside of hardware sales, despite potentially creating a less desirable user experience (1h9m38s).
• The Trade Desk describes Ventura as a major advance in streaming TV operating systems, addressing issues such as frustrating user experiences, inefficient advertising supply chains, and content conflicts of interest (1h10m1s).
• The inefficient advertising supply chain refers to the problem of multiple apps on a TV box not being able to share information about the ads a user has seen, resulting in the same ad being sold to multiple providers and shown to the same user multiple times (1h10m55s).
• This issue is a problem for companies like Hulu, Netflix, and YouTube TV, which have to pay fees to run the same ads on different platforms, such as Roku, which takes a cut of the revenue (1h11m19s).
• The solution proposed by Ventura is to create a more efficient advertising supply chain, which could potentially be sold to consumers as a way to avoid seeing the same ads repeatedly (1h11m36s).
• The idea of paying more for an efficient advertising experience on streaming services, such as Peacock, is discussed, with the suggestion that users would be willing to pay a higher monthly fee to see fewer or more varied ads (1h11m55s).
• The challenges of creating a TV streaming box that can integrate multiple services and provide a seamless user experience are highlighted, with the example of Netflix not having an incentive to play along (1h12m31s).
• Sonos is mentioned as a company that may not be well-positioned to offer a compelling TV streaming box, but could potentially offer a soundbar with streaming capabilities (1h12m45s).
• The trend of people buying TVs with built-in streaming software rather than separate boxes is noted, which could make it difficult for companies like Sonos to succeed in the market (1h13m4s).
• Google is reportedly canceling the Pixel Tablet 2 and may be leaving the tablet market entirely, but there are also rumors of a reboot of laptops and tablets, as well as a potential shutdown of Chrome OS in favor of Android (1h13m19s).
• The government's potential role in forcing Google to break up its business is mentioned, with a comparison to Meta's efforts to integrate its messaging apps in response to regulatory pressure (1h13m40s).
• The difference between Google's and Meta's approaches to responding to regulatory pressure is highlighted, with Meta's efforts being described as "ice cold" and calculated, while Google's efforts are seen as less strategic (1h14m0s).

Chromebooks and the Evolution of Application Models (1h14m20s)

• There have been discussions about canceling a deal and possibly running Chromebooks on Android, a conversation that has occurred multiple times in the past five years (1h14m21s).
• The Pixel Tablet situation is unclear due to conflicting reports from various sites that primarily cover Google and Android (1h14m35s).
• Reports have emerged that the Pixel Tablet 3 was canceled, but another report suggested that it was actually the Pixel Tablet 2 that was canceled, implying that there may be no more Pixel Tablets coming (1h14m45s).
• It appears that Google is exiting the tablet business, which is not surprising given the relatively low presence of Pixel Tablets in the market (1h14m59s).
• This decision marks a shift from Google's previous stance on being serious about the tablet business, as expressed by Rick Osterloh and the Google team (1h15m10s).

The Rise of Foldables (1h15m17s)

• Google is committed to making products that people like and is in the technology industry for the long haul (1h15m19s).
• The integration of Chrome OS and Android is considered a more interesting development, especially since Android and hardware became Rick Osterloh's responsibility (1h15m34s).
• To successfully combine Chrome OS and Android, a single person needs to direct all involved parties, a role that Rick Osterloh now holds (1h15m48s).
• Google previously tried and failed to combine Chrome OS and Android multiple times (1h15m42s).
• Google canceled the next Pixelbook, and it seems that if the company re-enters the laptop business, it will be with a Pixel laptop running Android (1h15m55s).
• The new laptop could run Android with a desktop-class Chrome browser, which could be a viable option, but it requires a significant shift from Google (1h16m12s).
• This shift would involve Google leaving the Chromebook business or making a significant change in its approach (1h16m23s).

Microsoft's Chromebox for Windows (1h16m24s)

• Google's Chromebook and Android operating systems have different application models, with Chromebooks initially being simple and browser-based, while Android is more complex with native applications, and this difference may cause issues if Google is forced to merge or sell Chrome due to government regulations (1h16m26s).
• The Chromebook's simplicity and browser-based application model have been powerful and taken over most desktop apps, but Google seems to have abandoned this idea by integrating Android apps into Chromebooks, making them more complicated and similar to Windows or Mac laptops (1h16m42s).
• Google may focus on foldables and laptops, abandoning tablets, and testing free-form desktop windowing on Android devices, which could make sense for some devices but not others (1h17m50s).
• The idea of Google focusing on foldables and laptops is not crazy, especially if they can make the desktop experience work, but they have struggled to marry Chrome and Android in the past (1h18m29s).
• Microsoft has announced a $349 PC that streams Windows, similar to a Chromebox, which could be a successful idea as a thin client that plugs into a screen and runs Windows over the internet (1h19m3s).
• The concept of a Thin Client PC, which runs web apps, was previously explored with netbooks and EPCs (Easy PCs), but they didn't gain much traction, especially after the release of the iPad, which offered a more appealing alternative (1h20m50s).
• Netbooks were initially popular, with Joanna Stern gaining recognition for her scoops on the topic, but they eventually lost popularity (1h21m12s).
• The idea of a cheap Linux computer running web apps for $500 was overshadowed by the iPad, which offered a better user experience (1h21m26s).
• Google is trying to become more like Windows and Microsoft, while Microsoft is shifting its focus towards internet-based services (1h20m44s).
• The concept of a Thin Client PC is still relevant, with the possibility of streaming Windows at home, but it's not yet widely adopted (1h20m12s).
• The shift towards internet-based services has changed the way people work, with a greater emphasis on being connected to the internet rather than relying on a traditional desktop computer (1h20m23s).
• The idea of a Thin Client PC is not new, but it has evolved over time, with the possibility of streaming operating systems and running web apps (1h21m0s).
• Shopify offers a one-dollar per month trial period for businesses to sign up and upgrade their selling experience, available at shopify.com/vergecast. (1h23m52s)
• Toyota is the supporter of the show, and they encourage people to think of driving as a rewarding experience rather than just a necessity. (1h24m10s)
• The Toyota Crown family comes with quality, reliability, and bold exterior styles, offering a range of options including a hybrid Max powertrain with up to 340 horsepower. (1h24m22s)
• The Toyota Crown sedan and signia provide unique features such as an available byone exterior finish and a stylish design, making any drive a thing of beauty. (1h24m37s)
• More information about the Toyota Crown family can be found at toyota.com. (1h24m55s)

Lightning Round (1h25m3s)

• The Vergecast's lightning round is sponsored by AWS, marking the first time the segment has been sponsored, and the team has grand plans for future sponsorships (1h25m29s).
• The sponsorship deal was a significant achievement for the team, who aimed to secure a major partner, and AWS was previously a relatively unknown entity to some listeners (1h26m8s).
• The team plans to allow other companies to sponsor the lightning round in the future, with the option for listeners to participate in the segment for a fee (1h26m37s).
• The show is changing its format, with the "show and tell" segment being replaced by a new version of the lightning round, which will feature a long list of stories discussed at a fast pace (1h27m5s).
• Historically, the lightning round has been the longest segment of the show, but the team is committed to making it faster-paced, with the help of a stopwatch if a sponsor is secured (1h27m20s).
• Comcast is spinning off its cable TV business, which is a significant development, and the company will create a new, well-capitalized company called Spinco, which will include MSNBC, CNBC, and other cable networks (1h27m54s).
• The spin-off is a strategic move by Comcast to focus on more profitable areas of its business, as the cable network business is no longer a priority for the company (1h28m35s).
• Comcast is planning to break up NBCUniversal, with the company holding on to NBC, Universal, and Bravo, while spinning off other networks like CNBC and MSNBC into a separate company called Spinco, due to the decline of the cable television industry and the rise of streaming services (1h28m41s).
• The era of cable television is considered over, with the industry collapsing more quickly than expected, leading companies to scramble to get out of the business as fast as they can (1h29m26s).
• The spin-off of CNBC and MSNBC poses questions about how they will operate without the infrastructure of NBC News, which Comcast is keeping (1h29m4s).
• The rapid decline of the cable industry has led to a shift in focus from managing slow growth in streaming to managing the extremely rapid death of cable (1h30m24s).
• Donald Trump has nominated Brendan Carr as chairman of the FCC, a move that is considered "dumb and bad" due to Carr's views on controlling speech on platforms and using threats of section 230 reform (1h30m54s).
• Strava is closing its API, citing concerns over privacy and AI training, but many users and app developers are expressing concerns that this move will have a significant impact (1h31m28s).
• Strava, a popular fitness app, is making changes to its platform, giving developers only 30 days' notice, which is a short timeframe in the developer environment (1h32m25s).
• The changes include removing features such as automatically generated leaderboards and summaries that allowed users to compete with friends and track information, which may disappear (1h32m10s).
• The move can be seen as Strava trying to be good to its users by closing off its ecosystem, or as an attempt to force users to rely more on Strava (1h32m50s).
• A similar situation occurred with Reddit, which went to war against its developers and users, closing down its open ecosystem and taking control, resulting in no significant negative repercussions (1h33m10s).
• Reddit's actions included taking a cut from third-party app developers and enforcing strict rules for moderators, ultimately leading to the platform's profitability (1h33m21s).
• Strava is also building its own AI features, such as Athlete Intelligence, which provides a summary of users' training data, a feature that was previously available through third-party apps (1h34m22s).
• The main difference between Strava and Reddit's situations is the switching costs, with Strava having more competition and lower switching costs, making it easier for users to switch to alternative platforms (1h35m0s).
• Strava users are discussing the possibility of leaving the platform and investing in alternative ecosystems like Garmin, but it may be challenging for long-time users to switch due to the high walls and impenetrable nature of Strava's ecosystem (1h35m18s).
• The discussion is similar to Reddit's situation, where users were tied to the platform and had limited alternatives, but it's unclear if Strava has the same level of user loyalty (1h35m39s).
• Elon Musk has filed documents in his lawsuit against Open AI, which include emails between Musk, Sam Altman, and other founders, revealing how the company transitioned from a nonprofit to a for-profit entity controlled by Sam Altman (1h36m28s).
• The emails suggest that Elon Musk gave Sam Altman a significant amount of money without a contract, which has led to a breach of contract claim without a contract, making it difficult for Musk to file a claim (1h37m13s).
• The lawsuit appears to be an attempt by Elon Musk to exert control over Open AI and Sam Altman, with Musk claiming that he is responsible for the company's existence and that Altman is to blame for the problems that have arisen (1h38m13s).
• The emails also reveal that Sam Altman consolidated his power over time, particularly after being briefly fired and then rehired with more autonomy and control (1h37m45s).
• The lawsuit and emails have been made public, providing insight into the inner workings of Open AI and the relationship between Elon Musk and Sam Altman (1h38m8s).
• Elon Musk is involved in a lawsuit with Open AI, and it is expected that he will lose the lawsuit, but the goal may be to make information about the company public rather than to win the case (1h38m49s).
• The lawsuit may reveal a lot about how Open AI operates, including messages from inside the company that could be made public as part of the discovery process (1h39m7s).
• The case is seen as an attempt by Elon Musk to position himself as the brains behind Open AI, rather than just an attempt to win the lawsuit (1h39m30s).
• In other news, Bose has acquired the company that makes Macintosh, a high-end speaker brand, as part of a trend of consolidation in the high-end audio market (1h39m47s).
• The high-end audio market is experiencing significant consolidation, with companies like Bose, Macintosh, Bowers and Wilkin, and Definitive Technology being owned by larger companies (1h39m59s).
• The consolidation in the audio market is seen as a result of the decline of the consumer audio market, with the market becoming increasingly dominated by a few large brands like Apple's AirPods (1h41m53s).
• The trend towards consolidation in the audio market is expected to continue, with companies looking to acquire brands and products to offer at different price points (1h40m39s).