Roy Cohn is Not an Enigma | A Second Look Podcast

Roy Cohn's Birthday Party and Influence

• In February 1986, a party was held in a fashionable New York City apartment to celebrate the 59th birthday of Roy Cohn, a powerful and polarizing lawyer and political operative (25s).
• The party was attended by a who's who of New York City's rich and famous, including former New York Democratic boss Carmine DeSapio, Norman Mailer, Helen Gurley Brown, and US Senator Chic Hecht of Nevada (50s).
• Mike Wallace was also present with a film crew to document the festivities for a 60 Minutes story about Cohn (42s).
• People have strong feelings about Roy Cohn, either loving or despising him, due to his complex and divisive career (1m18s).
• Cohn's notoriety stemmed from his early days working alongside Senator Joseph McCarthy during the Red Scare and prosecuting accused communist spies Ethel and Julius Rosenberg (1m30s).
• Cohn was a loyal friend and always showed up for those he cared about, and they reciprocated by attending his birthday party (1m51s).
• One of the friends who attended the party was a New York real estate developer, Donald Trump, who had become close to Cohn after the latter became a mentor to him over a decade earlier (2m6s).
• Trump delivered a toast to Cohn that night, praising his loyalty and friendship, but the footage was never broadcast on 60 Minutes (2m17s).
• According to New York Times Reporter and Trump biographer Maggie Haberman, Roy Cohn was the most important influence on Donald Trump's life, after his father, teaching him how to construct a life around proximity to power and creating artifice through the media (3m3s).
• The relationship between Trump and Cohn is now the subject of a new film called The Apprentice, starring Jeremy Strong as Cohn and Sebastian Stan as Trump (3m22s).

Cohn's Interviews and Background

• Minutes interviewed Roy Cohn twice, with the last interview taking place just months before he died of complications from AIDS (3m44s).
• Despite his death nearly 40 years ago, Roy Cohn's fighter mentality continues to influence culture and politics, including the highest office in the land (4m6s).
• Roy Cohn underwent cosmetic surgery in 1979, and Morley Safer was the first 60 Minutes correspondent to interview him after the surgery (4m33s).
• Cohn was described by Newsweek magazine as a "street fighter" who uses a custom-made blend of lotions to maintain his tan, but he denied using any special lotions and attributed his love for the sun to his natural tan (4m45s).
• Cohn was known for his work as the young legal counsel beside Senator Joseph McCarthy during the hearings to out suspected Communists in the government (5m27s).
• Cohn admired Senator McCarthy for having the "guts" to stand up for what he believed in, despite the criticism and backlash (5m43s).
• By the time of the interview in 1979, the McCarthy hearings were considered to be "witch hunts," but Cohn defended their actions, stating that they were necessary to address the threat of communism (6m5s).
• Cohn denied holding the country "to ransom" during the McCarthy era, instead claiming that it was a period in history when the country was responding to the threat of communism (6m14s).
• Cohn was 25 or 26 years old during the McCarthy era and had already been working at the Justice Department since he was 19 (8m21s).
• Cohn came from a well-connected family, with his father being a New York State judge, and he met influential people from a young age (8m34s).
• Cohn denied threatening to "wreck the Army" after his friend David Schine was drafted and did not receive preferential treatment (8m13s).
• Roy Cohn, a Jewish Democrat from New York, broke with his background by becoming Chief counsel for Joe McCarthy, leading to speculation that he was trying to prove himself as a good American despite his Jewish heritage and liberal upbringing (8m47s).
• Cohn resented the association of Jews with sympathy towards communism and made efforts to distance himself from this perception, emphasizing his love for America and dislike for communism (9m28s).

Cohn's Legal Career and Clients

• After McCarthy's fall from grace, Cohn forged a new identity as a powerful attorney for the rich and famous, earning the motto "don't mess with Roy Cohn" (10m6s).
• Reporter Ken Auletta wrote a 1978 Esquire cover story on Cohn, describing him as a "legal executioner" and one of the toughest, meanest, and most brilliant lawyers in America (10m46s).
• Cohn believed that the more publicity he received, the more he benefited, and would do anything legally permissible to win cases for his clients (11m11s).
• His clients included the Archdiocese of New York, Donald Trump, and his father Fred, as well as reputed mafia figures like John Gotti, Tony Salerno, and Carmine Galante (12m1s).
• Cohn offered no apologies for defending underworld clients, stating that he didn't need to believe in their innocence, but rather that they were innocent in a particular case or that the prosecution was unfair (12m22s).
• Cohn had his own troubles with the law, being tried three times on criminal charges, but was acquitted each time, which helped his reputation as a lawyer who could get clients out of trouble (12m46s).

Cohn's Finances and Lifestyle

• Roy Cohn manages to spend around half a million dollars a year on expenses without paying any taxes on it, claiming he has paid an astronomical amount of taxes and holds the world's record for never having a completed audit by the Internal Revenue Service for over 20 years (13m13s).
• Cohn expresses his dislike for the way the country punishes workers, the middle class, and Middle America, stating he doesn't want to earn more than he needs to subsist (13m52s).
• There are allegations that Cohn takes on clients and ends up as the beneficiary of their business assets, but he claims he has no interest in business and only wants to practice law (14m17s).
• Despite claiming not to have an interest in business, Cohn lives in a grand New York townhouse, whose ownership is unclear, and houses his law firm, in which he is not named as a partner (14m41s).
• Cohn has lost several cases, but he always makes them sound like victories, and his reputation as being invincible remains (14m59s).
• Cohn's townhouse features an ornate bedroom with a canopy bed, a ceiling made of glass, and a collection of frogs, china frogs, and toy soldiers (15m35s).
• Cohn is known to visit Studio 54, where he goes to be seen with the hip and the famous, and because the owners are his clients, who have pleaded guilty to income tax evasion (15m52s).

Cohn's Personal Life and Sexuality

• Cohn is not the marrying kind, but he claims he and Barbara Walters almost got married, and he praises her for her loyalty and gratitude after he helped her father with a criminal legal matter (16m34s).
• Cohn believes being a controversial person is the reason he hasn't gotten married, as he doesn't want his family to have to deal with the heartache and battles that come with being in the public eye (17m9s).
• Roy Cohn did not discuss his sexuality, despite rumors about his relationships with men since the McCarthy days, and his physical contact with Barbara Walters was limited to a peck on the cheek (17m34s).
• In an interview with Mike Wallace, Cohn denied having AIDS, stating it was an easy question to answer, and attributed the rumors to public curiosity (18m14s).

Cohn's Legal and Health Battles

• Cohn was fighting for his life on two fronts: professionally, he was facing disbarment for allegedly mishandling clients' money, and personally, he was battling liver cancer (19m1s).
• Cohn believed he was under attack by the liberal legal establishment in New York, who still held a grudge against him for his involvement with McCarthy (19m18s).
• Despite having friends like Barbara Walters and Donald Trump testify on his behalf, Cohn was ultimately disbarred (20m17s).
• Cohn had been diagnosed with liver cancer, which had spread in strange directions, but was in total remission after treatment at the National Institute of Health and Sloan Kettering (20m52s).
• Cohn's appearance on the interview was shocking, as he looked gaunt, and his health issues were a subject of public curiosity (21m22s).
• Cohn attributed his strong faith in doctors to his successful treatment and remission from liver cancer (21m14s).
• Roy Cohn's doctors have stated that he has a life-threatening disease, but they have not explicitly mentioned liver cancer in their affidavits (21m59s).
• Cohn claims that his name was not on the NIH computer for AIDS, and he is being treated by cancer specialists with an anti-cancer drug (22m25s).
• People often ask about Cohn's health and speculate that he has AIDS because they believe he is a homosexual, which Cohn denies (22m48s).
• A friend of Cohn's suggests that he wants to "come out of the closet" and make a dramatic statement, but Cohn dismisses this idea (23m8s).
• Cohn attributes the rumors about his health and personal life to his status as a bachelor and his association with other bachelors, including Senator McCarthy and David Shine (23m50s).
• Cohn notes that he, McCarthy, and Shine were all bachelors, but McCarthy and Shine later got married and had children (24m51s).
• Cohn compares the rumors about his personal life to the "whispering campaign" of the McCarthy years, where people were accused without proof (25m11s).

Cohn's Legacy and Portrayals

• When asked how he would like to be remembered, Cohn says that he expects to be remembered as "Roy Cohn, McCarthy's Chief Aid" (25m45s).
• Roy Cohn, a flamboyant New York lawyer, died of heart failure and effects of the AIDS virus in August 1986, but his legacy lives on in popular culture and politics (26m5s).
• Cohn's career began as Chief counsel in the McCarthy anti-communist hearings, but it ended with disbarment for dishonesty (26m9s).
• A dramatized version of Cohn appeared in Tony Kushner's 1991 Pulitzer Prize-winning play "Angels in America" and was portrayed by Al Pacino in the 2003 miniseries adaptation (26m33s).
• Multiple documentaries and films have been made about Cohn, including the 2016 film "The Apprentice" and the Showtime miniseries "Fellow Travelers" (26m57s).
• Donald Trump reportedly asked his legal counsel "Where's my Roy Cohn?" after assuming office, indicating Cohn's influence on Trump (27m18s).
• Cohn's life and personality have been subject to amateur analysis, with some viewing him as a man who was determined to get rich and get even after being bullied as a child (27m34s).

Production Credits and Acknowledgements

• This episode of "60 Minutes: A Second Look" was produced by Megan Marcus and Hazel May Ryan, with story editing by Mora Walls and senior production by Jamie Benson (27m51s).
• The episode features archival material from CBS News archives, with assistance from the crews and editors of the original pieces (28m26s).
• The team behind "60 Minutes: A Second Look" thanks the incredible team at CBS News archives for their help in making the podcast possible (28m32s).