Satanism: Fear, Manipulation, & Suffering | Zeena Schreck | EP 471

Coming up rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:00:00)

• The speaker believes that the individual in question desired recognition and importance from her mother.
• The speaker suggests that the individual's father associated with various groups within the Church of Satan, including celebrities and influential figures.
• The speaker speculates that the individual hoped to gain her mother's approval by aligning herself with a flamboyant entertainer.

intro rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:00:32)

• The speaker introduces Zeena Schreck, the daughter of Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan.
• Anton LaVey is described as a charismatic, intelligent, and manipulative individual who viewed the world as a stage and people as gullible marks.
• Zeena Schreck grew up in this environment and initially defended her father during the satanic panic of the 1980s, even serving as High Priestess of the Church of Satan for five years.
• However, she eventually realized that the Church of Satan was built on lies and deception, leading her to leave her father and the organization.
• The speaker connects this story to the cultural context of the 1970s, highlighting the dark side of the "let it all hang out" hedonism of the era.
• The speaker suggests that Zeena Schreck's experience provides valuable insight into the dangers of unchecked hedonism and the potential for manipulation within seemingly countercultural movements.

Breaking through trauma conditioning rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:03:35)

• The speaker believes that the conversation can offer hope to those who are struggling with difficult situations, dysfunctional families, or challenging life circumstances.
• The speaker emphasizes the importance of remembering that everything is impermanent and that with patience and diligence, individuals can find their own path aligned with their true selves.
• The speaker's personal experience can serve as an example for others who feel trapped by conditioning or belief systems imposed upon them during childhood. They believe that with strength of character, a greater vision, and a willingness to change, it is possible to break free from these limitations.

Anton LaVey: founder of the Church of Satan rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:07:45)

• Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan, was born in 1963. He founded the Church of Satan, which is considered the origin of modern Satanism as a public organization.
• LaVey's Satanism differed from traditional Satanism, which was often practiced in secret. He was anti-hippie and considered the Church of Satan to be a counterculture to the counterculture.
• LaVey was not an occultist in the traditional sense, but rather a performer and showman. He saw Satanism as a social experiment, exploring the idea that a religion based on base desires could remove the stigma associated with those desires.
• LaVey's approach to Satanism was influenced by PT Barnum's philosophy of "a sucker is born every minute." He believed in taking advantage of people who wanted to be taken advantage of, as long as everyone was enjoying themselves.
• Despite his association with Satanism, LaVey was anti-drug and a law-and-order person. He had friends in the police department and even dated a policeman during his teenage years.
• LaVey's approach to Satanism was considered postmodern and did not hold up to academic scrutiny.

Raised to believe LaVey’s Satanism was a genuine religion rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:16:00)

• The speaker was raised believing that LaVeyan Satanism was a genuine religion.
• The speaker later came to understand that LaVeyan Satanism was not a real religion, but more like a private club.
• The speaker's motivation for defending LaVeyan Satanism during the Satanic Panic of the 1980s was rooted in a desire to protect their father from false accusations and to ensure that the media did not portray Satanists as purely fictional boogeymen.
• The speaker also felt a responsibility to represent the reality of Satanists as real people, not just fictional characters.
• The speaker's actions were driven by a combination of love for their father, fear for their son, and the desire to protect their family from the negative consequences of the Satanic Panic.
• The speaker's personal life was also in turmoil during this time, as their parents were separating and both were demanding the speaker's support.

The Machiavellian tendency, Cain and Abel rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:20:56)

• The text discusses the Machiavellian tendencies of a person, using the example of the speaker's father. The speaker describes their father as narcissistic, Machiavellian, and a showman, drawing parallels to P.T. Barnum's famous quote, "There's a sucker born every minute."
• The text explores the idea that a Machiavellian individual might believe that those who are taken advantage of deserve it, as they were foolish enough to allow it to happen. This is compared to the biblical story of Cain and Abel, where Cain's resentment and misery are attributed to his own actions and the temptation he allowed into his life.
• The text highlights the hypocrisy of this perspective, as it justifies the Machiavellian individual's own predatory and parasitical behavior. This is further emphasized by the comparison to the "showman Carnival Barker" who exploits the gullibility of others while simultaneously blaming them for their own misfortune.

The dutiful daughter and rebellion rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:24:28)

• The speaker describes their relationship with their father as one of closeness and admiration, despite their father's involvement in Satanism. They viewed their father as a figure of authority and respect, similar to a "Jehovah God" archetype.
• The speaker emphasizes that they were a dutiful daughter, always striving to uphold their father's standards and avoid actions that could reflect negatively on the family. This included refraining from drug use, even though their parents presented a seemingly open-minded attitude towards experimentation.
• The speaker clarifies that their rebellion was not directed at their parents but rather at other authority figures, such as those in school or society. They felt a strong sense of loyalty to their family, viewing them as a "clan" against the world. The speaker's separation from their father was not an act of rebellion but a definitive severance of ties, a "clean break" due to reaching a personal limit.

Severing ties, gradual until the tipping point rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:28:35)

• The text discusses the gradual process of disillusionment experienced by the speaker regarding their father, who was the founder of the Church of Satan.
• The speaker initially felt a strong sense of loyalty to their family and believed in their father's claims, despite the contradictions in his personality and behavior.
• The speaker describes how they were initially a mouthpiece for their father, promoting his vision and defending his actions, even when they felt cognitive dissonance.
• Over time, the speaker began to receive information from others that contradicted their father's narrative, leading to a gradual erosion of their trust.
• The speaker emphasizes that the disillusionment was a gradual process, culminating in a tipping point when their father threatened their life.
• The speaker describes the tipping point as a culmination of many events, not just one isolated incident.
• The speaker highlights the difficulty of escaping the influence of a charismatic and manipulative figure, especially when one is raised in a family environment that prioritizes loyalty above all else.

Richard Ramirez, breaking the illusion rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:37:21)

• The speaker discusses Richard Ramirez, a serial killer who self-identified as a Satanist and was a follower of the speaker's father.
• The speaker notes that the Church of Satan attempts to distance itself from Ramirez, but the speaker believes that a true religion cannot choose its followers.
• The speaker questions the purpose of a religion, particularly one that claims to be anti-religion or a counter-religion.
• The speaker discusses the different levels of involvement within the Church of Satan, including an inner circle, a circle of friends, and a broader group of followers referred to as "the Ley" or "the Rubes."
• The speaker describes the Ley as the paying customers or the "stuffing in the mattress" who provide financial support to the Church of Satan.

Pinocchio, the dark magic of the carnival rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:41:38)

• The text discusses the symbolism of the carnival in the context of the Disney film "Pinocchio." The film's depiction of the carnival as a place of temptation and illusion is explored, with the character of the Coachman representing a figure who offers false promises of success and fame.
• The text draws a parallel between the carnival and the concept of "the great game," suggesting that both involve a manipulation of reality and a focus on appearances over substance. The carnival is seen as a place where people can escape from their responsibilities and indulge in their baser desires.
• The text connects the carnival to the realm of the satanic, highlighting its association with dark magic and deception. This connection is illustrated through examples from popular culture, such as Stephen King and Ray Bradbury's works, where carnivals are often depicted as settings for sinister events.

LaVey’s views of normal society, enablement and taking revenge rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:45:16)

• Anton LaVey believed that mainstream society was corrupt and hypocritical.
• LaVey's early life experiences likely contributed to his negative view of society.
• LaVey's mother played a significant role in the development of the Church of Satan, acting as a balance to his ideas and pushing him to go further.
• LaVey's mother was also responsible for the administrative and public relations aspects of the Church of Satan.

Zeena’s mother, raised in the church rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:47:34)

• The speaker's mother was 17 years old when she met the speaker's father, who was 30.
• The speaker's mother was described as narcissistic, but in a different way than her husband.
• The speaker's mother was a martyr to her husband's narcissism and was an absentee mother.
• The speaker's mother passed off her motherly duties to others, including grandparents, neighbors, church members, and the speaker's older sister.
• The speaker's sister had a more typical childhood than the speaker, as she was born when the speaker's father was younger and less involved in the Church of Satan.
• The speaker's mother claimed that the speaker was allowed to participate in rituals because she was precocious, but the speaker believes this was a justification for her mother's actions.
• The speaker was a very introverted child and often confronted adults who claimed she was shy.
• The speaker found many of the adults in the Church of Satan to be "gross" and had nothing to say to them.
• The speaker acknowledges that there were other members of the Church of Satan who were not like the ones she described, but they did not tend to stay in the group for long.

Adam and Eve: the Abrahamic masculine and feminine rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:53:26)

• The discussion centers around the story of Adam and Eve and its implications for understanding masculinity and femininity.
• The speaker argues that Eve's "fundamental sin" is "idiot compassion," a concept from Buddhism that describes compassion motivated by egotistical desires or a desire for personal gain.
• The speaker connects this concept to the characterization of the speaker's mother as a martyr, suggesting that her actions, while seemingly compassionate, were ultimately motivated by a desire for self-aggrandizement and a need to control the situation.
• The speaker further argues that Eve's actions in the story represent a "malignant feminine" archetype, characterized by a false sense of compassion and a desire to control the moral order.
• The speaker contrasts this with a "heroic feminine" archetype, suggesting that there is a spectrum of masculine and feminine behaviors, with both positive and negative expressions.

Zeena’s mother and martyrdom to the cause rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:59:31)

• The speaker's mother was a young woman from a working-class family who was attracted to the speaker's father, a musician who played the organ at various events in San Francisco.
• The speaker's mother's natural father died in an Alaskan jail from liver failure due to alcoholism. She never knew him.
• The speaker's grandmother, a strong and responsible Swedish woman, raised her two daughters as a single mother after moving from Chicago to San Francisco.
• The speaker's grandmother remarried a hardworking Teamster, who became the speaker's stepfather.
• The speaker's mother always knew that her stepfather was not her biological father, which left a void in her psyche that was easily filled by the speaker's father.
• The speaker believes that her mother's motivation for aligning herself with the speaker's father was a desire for her mother's love, approval, and respect.
• The speaker's mother concealed much of her involvement with the Church of Satan from her mother, and her parents were not allowed to visit their home without prior arrangement.
• The speaker believes that her mother's desire for respect from her mother stemmed from a feeling of not being appreciated enough.
• The speaker's grandmother's ambiguous feelings about her daughter, stemming from her daughter's birth being the result of a temporary reconciliation, likely influenced her relationship with her daughter throughout her life.
• The speaker felt the fallout of her grandmother's attitude towards her mother, which extended to her as well.
• The speaker's grandfather tolerated the speaker's father but did not seem to approve of her mother's choice to marry him.
• The speaker felt a judgmental attitude from her grandmother towards her, likely due to her being the product of her mother's choices.

Five years in the role of high priestess rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:11:20)

• The speaker was thrust into the role of High Priestess of the Church of Satan at the age of 20, following her mother's departure and her father's descent into depression and agoraphobia.
• The speaker's role involved public speaking and media appearances, particularly in response to the growing media frenzy surrounding Satanism in the 1980s.
• The speaker's initial motivation for taking on the role was to protect her family, but she soon began to question the Church's teachings and practices, particularly in light of the widespread panic and persecution of innocent people.
• The speaker's experiences as High Priestess led her to develop a sense of compassion for all people, regardless of their beliefs or affiliations.
• The speaker's disillusionment with the Church of Satan was further fueled by the McMartin Preschool case, a highly publicized and ultimately unfounded case of alleged satanic ritual abuse.

Trying to break away, living as an “untouchable” rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:17:47)

• The speaker discusses the challenges of being a spokesperson for a controversial group, particularly during a time of intense public scrutiny and hysteria.
• They acknowledge the potential for personal gain through public attention but emphasize that their primary motivation was not self-promotion.
• The speaker describes the negative impact of being labeled a "Satanist" on their professional life, highlighting the discrimination they faced in the acting industry and the impossibility of pursuing a career in the arts due to their association with the group.

Membership surged with Zeena involved, how her father manipulated the inner circle rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:21:47)

• Zeena's public presence led to a surge in membership for the Church of Satan.
• Her father, recognizing this, offered to pay her 25% of the membership fees from new members who joined after seeing her.
• He only followed through with this payment for the first three new members.
• Her father used this new influx of members to create an inner circle of "movers and shakers" from the punk scene.
• He believed these individuals would improve his image among the "cool kids."
• Some people later criticized Zeena for not using her influence to gain more power and wealth within the organization.

To recognize your ability to cause harm and refrain rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:25:13)

• The speaker realized the power they had to influence others during a chaotic period in their life.
• Years later, after becoming a Buddhist, the speaker had a realization during a post-meditation session.
• The realization was that true power lies in understanding one's own potential for harm and choosing to refrain from using it.
• The speaker recognized their ability to mobilize people and knew they could potentially cause harm.
• The speaker chose to refrain from using this power, even during a challenging interview that marked the end of their public engagement.

Purposeful misrepresentation by the press rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:27:26)

• The speaker was interviewed by a journalist for a Sunday morning religion show in Los Angeles. The journalist was conscientious and open-minded, unlike many journalists.
• The speaker had previously been interviewed by a colleague of the journalist, and had expressed her dislike for interviews and her intention to leave the Church of Satan.
• The journalist convinced the speaker to do the interview by arguing that it was important to speak out against a new law that would prosecute religions that practice animal sacrifice, including Satanism.
• The speaker agreed to the interview under the condition that her image would not be associated with dead animals, as she was an animal lover and found it disturbing.
• Despite this agreement, the news broadcast included a dead cat alongside the speaker's image, causing her significant distress and contributing to her mental health struggles.
• The speaker threatened the news station with a protest by 200 angry Satanists if they did not issue a public retraction stating that the Church of Satan does not condone animal sacrifice.
• The news station issued the retraction.

Tony Valdez, aiming higher rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:32:56)

• Tony Valdez, a kindhearted individual, reached out to the speaker, expressing empathy and concern for the speaker's situation.
• Valdez offered the speaker a platform on his Sunday Morning Show, providing an opportunity for the speaker to share their perspective without interruption.
• Valdez's comment about the speaker's views resembling Buddhism foreshadowed the speaker's future path, highlighting the potential for unexpected connections and influences.

Why Zeena made an exception to be interviewed by Dr. Peterson rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:34:35)

• The speaker typically does not grant interviews about the topic discussed.
• The speaker made an exception for this interview because the interviewer is an educated clinical psychologist, approaching the topic from a different perspective than other podcasters or journalists.
• The speaker distinguishes the interviewer from others who seek attention or exploit the topic for personal gain, particularly those who joined the Church of Satan after the speaker's departure.

The development of broader compassion, the severing ceremony rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:35:59)

• The speaker describes their journey out of Satanism, highlighting two key factors: the realization of the church's hypocrisy and the discovery of a compassionate alternative in Buddhism.
• The speaker emphasizes the gradual nature of their disillusionment with Satanism, citing the church's violation of their conscience and the realization of inconsistencies in their teachings.
• The speaker describes a ritual they performed to sever ties with the Church of Satan, which involved a three-day process culminating in a curse directed at their father and the church. This ritual was performed months after leaving the church and moving to Vienna for safety.

Reconciliation and finding Buddhism, the blessing of being lost rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:45:13)

• The speaker discusses how they reconciled their past involvement with Satanism with their current practice of Buddhism. They explain that they were not a Buddhist at the time of their involvement with Satanism and that they were still deeply ingrained in the satanic mindset.
• The speaker describes their journey of exploring different spiritual paths, including European paganism, Tantra, and other practices. They realized that the satanic way of life was not sustainable and that it was self-destructive.
• The speaker emphasizes that the ego is a false construct and that it can lead to self-destructive behavior. They believe that being lost is a blessing because it allows individuals to lose everything and realize their true nature.