Is It Ethical To Hand-Pick Your Child’s Genes? - Dr Jonathan Anomaly

Why IQ Annoys People rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:00:00)

• The discussion centers around the aversion to conversations about IQ. This aversion stems from the misuse of IQ tests in the past, particularly during the 1920s and 1930s, to justify discriminatory policies like restrictive immigration and racial supremacy.
• The use of IQ tests to justify such policies became particularly problematic after World War II. This is because the Nazi regime used IQ tests to support their ideology, despite finding that Jews consistently scored higher than Germans. This association with Nazi policies led to a widespread stigma surrounding IQ testing and genetic explanations for group differences.
• The text defines intelligence as the ability to creatively solve problems. It acknowledges that intelligence is not solely based on memory or recall but involves drawing conclusions from evidence. The text emphasizes that individual differences in intelligence are evident across species, including humans, dogs, and cuttlefish. These differences are largely attributed to genetic factors, although environmental influences also play a role.
• The text highlights the genetic basis of individual differences in intelligence. It argues that while environmental factors can influence intelligence, there are genetic limits to how much an individual can improve their cognitive abilities. This is analogous to physical traits like height and muscle mass, where genetics play a significant role.
• The text extends the concept of genetic influence to group differences. It uses the example of athletic abilities, noting that certain groups tend to excel in specific disciplines, such as Ethiopians in long-distance running and West Africans in short-distance running. This suggests that genetic factors contribute to these group differences, just as they do to individual differences.

Is IQ a Reliable Measurement? rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:03:56)

• IQ tests have been used for over a century and have evolved to become more reliable, with early versions containing cultural biases that have been addressed.
• While IQ tests are not a perfect measure of intelligence, they are considered a good gauge of general cognitive ability due to their assessment of a wide range of abilities, including mathematical, spatial, verbal, and inferential reasoning.
• Spearman's hypothesis suggests that there is a general factor of intelligence, often called "G," that underlies different cognitive abilities, and IQ tests are designed to measure this factor.
• Research in behavioral genetics, particularly studies of identical and fraternal twins, supports the existence of a genetic component to intelligence.
• IQ scores are correlated with various life outcomes, including educational attainment, income, marital stability, addictive behavior, and even criminality, even after controlling for socioeconomic status.
• The correlation between IQ and criminality suggests that individuals with lower IQ scores may be more prone to criminal behavior due to factors like shorter time horizons and less self-control.
• While IQ tests are not perfect, they provide valuable insights into cognitive abilities and their relationship to various life outcomes.

Risks of Making Some People More Valuable rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:09:48)

• The text explores the potential risks of associating intelligence, specifically IQ, with moral value. It argues that while IQ is correlated with various positive outcomes like job success and stable relationships, equating these outcomes with inherent worthiness can lead to dangerous social hierarchies.
• The text highlights the potential for bias and discrimination based on perceived intelligence. It draws parallels to existing biases based on physical attractiveness, suggesting that valuing individuals solely based on their IQ could lead to similar forms of prejudice and social inequality.
• The text cautions against denying the reality of IQ and its genetic basis. It argues that ignoring the role of genetics in intelligence could lead to resentment and envy towards those with higher IQs, potentially resulting in policies that punish those who are naturally more intelligent. The text suggests that such policies could ultimately harm society by hindering innovation and progress.

Will Embryo Selection Be the Next Big Thing? rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:15:39)

• The text discusses the potential for embryo selection to become a widespread practice in the near future.
• The speaker believes that embryo selection, which allows parents to choose embryos with desired traits, will be a significant technological advancement in the coming decades.
• The speaker highlights the potential for selecting embryos based on cognitive ability, specifically IQ, and suggests that this technology is already available.
• The speaker acknowledges that while selecting for health traits is currently common, selecting for cognitive ability is a newer development.
• The speaker expresses concern about the potential for a societal divide between those who can afford embryo selection and those who cannot, creating a "two-class" system.
• The speaker emphasizes that the potential for embryo selection is not limited to IQ, but also includes traits like conscientiousness and openness, which are considered valuable for success in life.
• The speaker believes that embryo selection will become increasingly common and that companies will compete to offer a wider range of selectable traits.

Humans Are Already Selecting Traits in Partners rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:20:27)

• Humans are already engaging in a form of genetic selection through their choice of partners. This is evident in the traits we find attractive, such as symmetrical faces, which are indicative of genetic fitness.
• The selection of sperm donors by women further illustrates this point, as they often prioritize traits like kindness, intelligence, and health in the donor, demonstrating a conscious effort to select desirable genetic material.
• The text argues that the distinction between treating existing diseases and enhancing existing capacities is not as clear-cut as it may seem. For example, correcting crooked teeth through braces is considered an enhancement, yet crooked teeth are a natural variation within the human species. Similarly, selecting embryos with a lower risk of age-related conditions like muscle loss or cancer could be considered an enhancement, but it is also a way to improve overall health and well-being.
• The text suggests that the fear surrounding genetic enhancement stems from a lack of understanding about the underlying mechanisms and potential benefits. It argues that we already engage in various forms of genetic selection, both consciously and unconsciously, and that the line between treatment and enhancement is often blurred.

Moral Challenges of Genetic Enhancement rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:27:51)

• The text discusses the moral challenges of genetic enhancement, particularly in the context of selecting embryos and modifying their genes.
• One key challenge is the issue of consent. Since children cannot consent to being born, the question arises whether they would consent to specific traits if they had a choice.
• The text suggests that individuals would likely consent to traits that promote a generally healthy and fulfilling life, such as a strong immune system, reasonable intelligence, and good self-control.
• The text also explores the distinction between treatment and enhancement. It argues that in a system of socialized healthcare, resources should be prioritized for treating existing diseases and preventing future ones, rather than for enhancing traits that may provide only a slight advantage.
• The text suggests that prioritizing treatment over enhancement is particularly relevant in situations where resources are scarce and individuals are forced to share costs and benefits.
• The text concludes by highlighting the potential burden that genetic enhancements could place on society, as individuals may seek to enhance their children's traits, potentially leading to a competitive environment where everyone strives for an advantage.

Are Our Genes Mutating & Eroding? rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:33:44)

• The text discusses the concept of "genetic erosion" or "mutation load" which refers to the accumulation of harmful mutations in a population over time. This accumulation is attributed to advancements in healthcare and technology that allow individuals with genetic conditions to survive and reproduce, passing on these mutations to their offspring.
• The text argues that this accumulation of mutations is a natural consequence of evolution and that it is a force that needs to be addressed. The author uses the metaphor of "Chesterton's Fence" to illustrate the importance of considering the unintended consequences of interfering with natural processes.
• The text suggests that to counter this genetic erosion, individuals could consider using embryo selection or genetic enhancement to minimize the disease burden and maintain the current state of human health. The author also acknowledges that this approach could be controversial and that it raises ethical questions.

Will This Help the Declining Birth Rate? rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:40:48)

• The text discusses the potential impact of advanced reproductive technologies, particularly IVF and genetic selection, on declining birth rates.
• The speaker suggests that government subsidies for IVF could be a solution to declining birth rates, as it would make the technology more accessible to those struggling to conceive.
• The speaker argues that government subsidies for IVF could lead to increased use of genetic selection, as IVF often involves multiple embryos, allowing for the selection of those with desirable genetic profiles.
• The speaker acknowledges that religious groups may be hesitant to use IVF and genetic selection due to ethical concerns, potentially leading to a widening genetic gap between those who use these technologies and those who do not.
• The speaker highlights the potential benefits of genetic selection in mitigating the negative effects of inbreeding, particularly in populations with a history of consanguineous marriage, such as certain religious groups.
• The speaker cites a study that suggests a link between the Catholic Church's ban on cousin marriage and lower disease burdens and higher levels of trust and fairness in European societies.
• The speaker argues that genetic selection could be particularly beneficial for populations with a history of inbreeding, such as those in the Middle East, Bangladesh, and East Africa, where cousin marriage is common.
• The speaker notes that Ashkenazi Jews, who have a history of genetic bottlenecks, often undergo genetic testing to screen for specific diseases, highlighting the potential benefits of genetic selection in mitigating the risks associated with smaller gene pools.

Should We Be Worried About Embryo Selection? rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:48:56)

• The text discusses the potential consequences of widespread genetic selection, particularly in the context of embryo selection and gene editing.
• The author raises concerns about potential "arms races" where individuals constantly strive for genetic enhancements, leading to a situation where everyone is better off than before but no one has a relative advantage. This is illustrated with the example of height, where selecting for taller embryos could lead to a population of tall individuals with no relative advantage and potential health risks.
• The author suggests that such arms races might be self-equilibrating, as individuals would recognize the potential downsides of extreme genetic enhancements and choose more moderate options. This is supported by the observation that men tend to prefer shorter women and vice versa, suggesting a natural balance in mate selection.
• The text also explores the potential impact of sex ratio imbalance, noting that there might be a preference for female embryos in advanced societies due to the value placed on cognitive abilities and a preference for male embryos in poorer societies due to the value placed on physical strength.
• The author acknowledges that there is no definitive evidence to support these claims but suggests that the potential for self-equilibration exists, as a skewed sex ratio would create incentives for individuals to select for the opposite sex.

What Genetics Tells Us About Morals rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:56:45)

• Morality is a product of culture and socialization. Values and virtues are learned through our environment, including religious and secular influences.
• Morality evolved to solve collective action problems. Humans are naturally inclined towards selfishness, but morality helps us cooperate in groups. This is especially important in larger groups where individual incentives might conflict with the group's overall goals.
• Genetics plays a role in moral behavior. There is a genetic influence on our capacity for empathy, personality traits like conscientiousness and openness, and our propensity for psychopathic tendencies. These factors can influence our moral decision-making.
• Moral enhancement should focus on promoting reciprocal altruism. Instead of simply making everyone more cooperative, it is more beneficial to cultivate a balance between cooperation and the ability to identify and punish those who exploit others. This allows for a more nuanced and effective approach to social interactions.
• Moral enhancement should consider evolutionary psychology. Our moral instincts evolved to solve specific problems, such as collective action problems. Understanding these evolutionary roots can help us design more effective moral enhancement strategies.
• Moralistic aggression is a natural part of morality. We experience a sense of satisfaction when we punish those who violate social norms. This can be a powerful tool for promoting cooperation and deterring harmful behavior.

The Genetics of Collaboration rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:04:53)

• Intelligence and Cooperation: Individuals with higher intelligence tend to be more cooperative in situations where there are collective benefits to be gained. This is not necessarily because they are inherently nicer, but because they have longer time horizons and can see the long-term advantages of cooperating, even if it means sacrificing short-term gains.
• Short-sightedness and Selfishness: Selfishness can be seen as a form of short-sightedness, where individuals fail to consider the long-term consequences of their actions. This can lead to behaviors that are detrimental to both themselves and society.
• Moral Behavior is Complex: Moral behavior is a complex interplay of factors, including selfishness, long-term thinking, and genuine altruism. It is difficult to determine the motivations behind a particular action, as individuals may be influenced by a combination of these factors.
• Intelligence and Social Welfare: Higher intelligence can have positive effects on social welfare. Individuals with higher IQs tend to be more cooperative, which leads to greater social cohesion and benefits for everyone. Additionally, they are more likely to contribute to economic growth and innovation.
• The Impact of Wealth on Morality: Wealthier societies are better able to afford to treat strangers with kindness, as they are less concerned with basic survival needs. This can lead to a more cooperative and less hostile environment.

Ethical Arguments for Genetic Enhancement rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:10:08)

• The text explores the ethical arguments for genetic enhancement, acknowledging the historical baggage associated with the term "genetics" due to its connection to eugenics and Nazi Germany. This historical context creates a strong aversion to the idea of genetic manipulation, even when discussing potential benefits.
• The text argues that those who believe in a "blank slate" view of human nature, where all differences are solely due to environmental factors, face a difficult dilemma when confronted with genetic enhancement technology. If they refuse to use it, their children may be at a disadvantage compared to those who do. This creates a potential for social inequality and raises questions about personal responsibility.
• The text suggests that genetic enhancement could potentially address societal issues like crime rates. It cites a study that found a correlation between the legalization of abortion and lower crime rates, suggesting that unwanted pregnancies may have contributed to higher crime rates in the past. This raises the possibility that genetic interventions could have a positive impact on society.
• The text criticizes the hypocrisy of those who claim to believe in a "blank slate" view of human nature but still engage in selective breeding in their personal lives. This includes choosing partners based on intelligence, selecting for smart children, and even acknowledging group differences in athletic abilities. This highlights the inconsistency between stated beliefs and actual behavior.
• The text emphasizes the importance of acknowledging biological differences between groups, even if they are not used to justify discrimination. It argues that denying the existence of such differences, as some do, is unrealistic and ultimately harmful.

The Olympic Female Boxing Situation rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:18:13)

• The text discusses the controversy surrounding the participation of two biological males, Imain Khif and Ly Yuting, in the women's boxing competition at the Olympics. This situation highlights the ongoing debate about gender and fair play in sports.
• The speaker argues that denying the role of genetics in human traits, including athletic ability, is harmful and ultimately oppressive. He believes that acknowledging the influence of genetics is crucial for promoting equality and allowing individuals to utilize technology to improve their children's prospects.
• The speaker predicts that the growing use of genetic technologies, such as embryo selection, will lead to a "preference cascade" where the public will eventually accept the reality of genetic influence and embrace genetic enhancement. He compares this to the eventual collapse of communism, where the public eventually recognized the system's flaws and rejected it.

New Developments of Polygenic Risk Scores rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:26:46)

• A study by Remy Fur and colleagues surveyed Americans about their attitudes towards polygenic embryo screening, which uses genetic information to select embryos for implantation during IVF.
• The study found that a large majority of respondents believed that screening should be allowed, but the level of approval varied significantly depending on the trait being targeted.
• For health conditions like cancer, heart disease, and Alzheimer's, approval was high, with over 80% of respondents approving of screening. However, approval was significantly lower for traits like intelligence, neuroticism, and skin color.
• The study also found that framing a trait as a health condition, such as obesity, led to higher approval rates than framing it as a trait, such as BMI.
• The authors suggest that the public's attitudes towards polygenic embryo screening are influenced by a combination of factors, including ignorance about the heritability of certain traits, societal norms, and personal values.

Predicted Uptake of Embryo Selection rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:36:18)

• The text discusses the predicted uptake of embryo selection technology in the Western world over the next few decades.
• The speaker predicts that the technology will be adopted by a small percentage of people within the next decade, with adoption increasing as the technology becomes more accessible and affordable.
• The speaker believes that the use of embryo selection will increase as more people use IVF to select against family disorders, and that this trend will be further accelerated by governments in countries like South Korea and Israel, who may subsidize the technology to address declining birth rates.
• The speaker predicts that the development of new technologies, such as induced pluripotent stem cell (iPSC) technology, could lead to a rapid increase in the use of embryo selection, as it would allow for the selection of embryos from a large number of potential offspring without the need for IVF.
• The speaker believes that the ideological resistance to embryo selection will diminish in the coming years, as companies begin to offer services that allow for the selection of traits beyond disease, such as cognitive ability and personality.
• The speaker predicts that the cost of embryo selection technology will decrease significantly in the near future, making it accessible to a wider range of people.
• The speaker hints at the development of new technologies that will make embryo selection accessible to people around the world without the need for specialized clinical equipment.

Different Consequences of Increased Selection rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:39:46)

• The widespread use of genetic selection technology could lead to a significant reduction in disease burden, particularly in regions with high rates of consanguineous marriage. This could result in a healthier population with fewer genetic disorders.
• The technology could also lead to subtle increases in cognitive ability, potentially counteracting the trend of lower birth rates among highly intelligent individuals in Western societies.
• There is a possibility that individuals might use genetic selection to favor specific traits like religiosity or political orientation, potentially leading to a more divided society. However, the speaker believes this scenario is less likely to occur.
• The speaker acknowledges that cultural influences can override genetic predispositions in the short term, as seen in the shifting political affiliations of younger generations. However, over longer periods, genetic factors could exert a greater influence on societal trends.
• The speaker highlights the importance of considering both genetic and cultural factors when analyzing societal changes, as they interact in complex ways.

Where to Find Jonathan rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:45:27)

• The speaker mentions that there are resources available online, including papers by Remy on the heritability of traits and a group called Peer that tackles ethical problems related to genetics.
• The speaker also mentions their own book, "H: Creating Future People," which explores the science and ethics of genetic enhancement. The book is available in both paperback and free open access versions.
• The speaker has a column for Psychology Today called "Sex and Civilization," which discusses the cultural consequences of separating sex and reproduction through innovations like the birth control pill.
• The speaker expresses interest in the listener's podcast and its guests, particularly the listener's Psychology Today article on "technological traditionalism."
• The speaker mentions their experiences with online harassment and cancel culture in academia, suggesting that it would be interesting to discuss this topic further.