Behind the founder: Marc Benioff

Introduction to Marc Benioff and Salesforce (0s)

• Marc Benioff is the co-founder and CEO of Salesforce, the second-largest B2B SaaS company in the world, worth around $350 billion, making $35 billion a year in revenue, and still growing after 25 years (1m1s).
• Salesforce had one of the most legendary launch events in startup history, and Marc Benioff's approach was to try various tactics to see what would work and turn it into a winning strategy (10s).
• Despite the company's success, Marc Benioff doesn't focus on the stock price, finding it distracting, and instead emphasizes the importance of AI as the defining technology of our lifetime (24s).
• As a founder, Marc Benioff experiences existential freakout moments about AI, but he maintains a mindset of excitement and anticipation for the next thing, rather than fear or resistance (42s).
• Marc Benioff's conversation topics include leadership, AI, domain names, beginner's mind, marketing, product sales, and the hardest moment in his journey of building Salesforce (1m19s).
• The conversation also touches on the concept of an "agent" and its significance in the context of AI and technology (1m29s).

Marc’s early career and domain names (3m54s)

• Marc Benioff owned a number of epic domain names, including bill.com, you.com, code.com, and appstore.com, which showcases his visionary approach and ability to look ahead (4m18s).
• Benioff worked at Oracle for 10 years, from 1986 to 1996, during which he experienced significant career acceleration and went from being a college graduate to working for Larry Ellison (4m37s).
• After 10 years at Oracle, Benioff felt burnt out and decided to take time off, renting a house on the beach in Hawaii, where he reflected on his career and invested in various companies, including Seel Systems and Saba Software (5m12s).
• During his time in Hawaii, Benioff became fascinated with the internet and started buying domain names for companies that he thought would be great ideas in the future, including salesforce.com (5m38s).
• Benioff's decision to buy domain names was influenced by his experience working on the internet at Oracle and his vision for where the industry was headed (5m35s).
• The domain names Benioff purchased were ideas that he thought would become great companies one day, and many of them have since become successful companies (5m42s).
• Benioff's purchase of domain names occurred almost 30 years ago, showcasing his ability to think ahead and anticipate future trends (5m56s).

The App Store story and lessons from Steve Jobs (5m59s)

• Marc Benioff owned the domain appstore.com, which he gifted to Steve Jobs, a gesture that stemmed from his relationship with Jobs that began when Benioff interned at Apple in 1984 and wrote the first Native Assembly Language on the Macintosh (6m10s).
• During his internship, Benioff witnessed Jobs' dynamic personality firsthand, observing him running around the Apple headquarters, yelling at employees, and promoting a unique work environment with amenities like a masseuse and a pirate flag on the roof (6m41s).
• Benioff's relationship with Jobs continued as he transitioned to Oracle and eventually founded Salesforce, where he would occasionally seek Jobs' advice, including a meeting in 2001 or 2002 at the opening of a Pixar movie (7m31s).
• During this meeting, Jobs introduced Benioff to the iPod and dismissed the idea of using the device for movies or photos, showcasing his strong personality and vision (8m10s).
• When Benioff faced a creative block at Salesforce, he reached out to Jobs, who provided him with three key pieces of advice: to grow the company 10 times larger within 24 months, sign a major customer like Avon, and build an application economy (8m59s).
• Jobs' advice to build an application economy was particularly influential, as Benioff was unsure what it meant but was determined to figure it out and make it happen (9m42s).
• Marc Benioff had a meeting with his guru, where he was given a puzzle to solve, and after going through his notes multiple times, he realized his guru wanted him to build an app store (9m56s).
• Benioff bought the domain appstore.com and started working on the idea at Salesforce, which eventually led to the launch of App Exchange in 2005 or 2006 (10m16s).
• The name "App Store" was tested in focus groups, but customers preferred "App Exchange" because it implied exchanging apps and capabilities with each other (10m40s).
• A year after the iPhone was released, Steve Jobs asked Benioff to come and see him, and he revealed the App Store, which was a surprise to Benioff's team as they had been working on a similar concept (10m55s).
• Benioff gifted Steve Jobs the appstore.com URL and the trademark for App Store, which he had bought and trademarked six years prior (12m17s).
• Steve Jobs was initially unimpressed, thinking the App Store wouldn't be very big, but Benioff was grateful for the opportunity to give him the gift (12m36s).
• Benioff's relationship with Steve Jobs was very influential in his career and life, and he appreciated Jobs' generosity and willingness to help (12m50s).
• Steve Jobs was a very generous person who never turned down Benioff's requests for help, and Benioff has many stories about their interactions, including one where Jobs helped him decide whether to buy a house (13m8s).
• Even when Jobs was very sick, he still took the time to look at the house and offer his opinion, showing his kindness and generosity (13m44s).
• Marc Benioff had a close relationship with Steve Jobs, and their last email exchange was a poignant moment, with Steve expressing that everything had worked out better than they could have ever imagined (13m52s).
• Steve Jobs had a lot of advice for Marc Benioff, including the importance of having a big customer and high Average Contract Value (ACV) in B2B SaaS, despite his dislike for SaaS and enterprise software (14m25s).
• Steve Jobs tried to talk Marc Benioff out of pursuing a career in enterprise software, finding it hard to imagine a more horrible career, but despite his reservations, he was incredibly supportive of Benioff (14m35s).
• Marc Benioff has many stories about Steve Jobs and acknowledges that Jobs was rarely wrong, having created $350 billion of value (15m12s).
• Steve Jobs' dislike for enterprise software and SaaS ultimately proved to be a wrong call, as Marc Benioff went on to achieve great success in the field (15m7s).

Lessons from launching Salesforce (15m18s)

• Marc Benioff launched Salesforce, trying to convince people that the future of software was in the cloud, specifically Software as a Service (SaaS), rather than desktop software (15m20s).
• At the launch event, Benioff hired fake protesters and actors to stage a protest outside a conference of a major Enterprise software company, Seibel, which was doing CRM, with signs saying "The End of Software is Near" and other similar messages (15m39s).
• The protest was so convincing that Seibel's CEO, Tom Seibel, came out of the building, got upset, and even called the police, not realizing it was a staged event by Salesforce (16m52s).
• The launch event was followed by a huge party at a top theater in San Francisco, with a great band, and was a really fun and memorable time for Benioff (17m40s).
• The launch event took place on February 22nd, 2000, and was a key moment in getting the word out about Salesforce and differentiating it from other software companies (17m56s).
• Benioff believes that getting attention and breaking through the noise is a major challenge for founders, and that his launch event was a successful example of how to do this, even if it was a bit frivolous (18m21s).
• Benioff is still working on getting attention for new products, such as Agent Force, which he introduced at the Dreamforce conference, and is a major challenge in today's noisy world (18m54s).
• Marc Benioff is trying to get his company 100% on Agent Force, a product that has shown incredible results, including a 50% reduction in human escalation from support infrastructure and resolving 83% of inquiries robotically (19m15s).
• To promote Agent Force, Benioff is trying various tactics, including creating viral and exciting content, such as ads featuring Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, who are friends of his and have not worked together since True Detective (20m6s).
• Benioff is also training his salespeople on how to sell Agent Force, running aggressive marketing against Microsoft's Co-Pilot product, and showcasing the product's capabilities on salesforce.com (20m39s).
• His goal is to find the winning tactic and turn it into a winning strategy, and he recommends this approach to all entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of trying different things and seeing what works (21m7s).
• To further promote Agent Force, Benioff is expanding his distribution organization, aiming to hire an additional 1,000 to 2,000 account executives to focus on the product (21m36s).
• Benioff sees Agent Force as an opportunity for customers to lower their costs, improve their operations, and experience digital labor, positioning Salesforce as a digital labor provider, not just a data management company (21m58s).

The importance of keeping a beginner’s mindset (22m3s)

• Marc Benioff emphasizes the importance of trying various approaches to find the right strategy, rather than focusing solely on one idea, and notes that finding the right approach can be challenging (22m4s).
• He references Seth's advice to "be remarkable" and create something that people will talk about, citing his own celebrity-oriented ad as a good example (22m21s).
• Benioff compares the process of finding the right approach to Chris Rock's method of testing jokes in clubs before performing a Netflix special, highlighting the need for experimentation and humility as an entrepreneur (22m40s).
• He stresses the importance of cultivating a "beginner's mind" through meditation and mindfulness, allowing oneself to consider new possibilities rather than being limited by expertise (23m16s).
• Benioff notes that he has been writing software since he was 15 and is now 60, but strives to maintain a beginner's mind to stay open to new ideas (23m43s).
• He shares his current goals for his company, including focusing on a breakthrough product called Agent Force, finding more fuel for the idea, increasing distribution capability, telling customer stories, and engaging with the company's ecosystem of Trailblazers (24m17s).
• Marc Benioff thinks about six key things to motivate Salesforce's 135,000 customers to use their product, including assessing how to move forward, evolve, inspire, motivate, and energize, all while maintaining a beginner's mind (25m26s).
• Benioff uses Koda to coordinate his podcasting and newsletter workflows, and recommends it for teams to stay aligned and ship faster by managing planning cycles, setting and measuring OKRs, and mapping dependencies (25m50s).
• Benioff believes in the importance of having a beginner's mind, which can be difficult to operationalize within a company, especially one as old as Salesforce, which is now the second-largest software company in the world and in Japan (26m54s).
• To spread this way of thinking within the organization, Benioff draws inspiration from his visits to Zen temples in Kyoto, Japan, where he goes to clear his mind and receive new ideas, much like Steve Jobs used to do (27m23s).
• Benioff has brought friends, including musician Neil Young, to the Reni rock garden Temple in Kyoto, where they have experienced deep meditation and creative inspiration, highlighting the importance of getting into a creative zone (27m57s).
• Benioff believes that everyone has the potential to tap into their creative process and "write an album in their head," and encourages people to find ways to get into that zone and access their own creative inspiration (28m46s).
• To be a great entrepreneur or CEO, one must clear their mind and be ready to create their business plan, product plan, or product launch plan, as Marc Benioff does for his Agent Force product (28m57s).
• Geography plays a significant role in finding the right place to clear one's mind, and different locations can be used for this purpose, such as Kyoto or local spots like the top of Mount Tamalpais or Spirit Rock in Marin County (29m15s).
• It is essential to find a location outside of the office to clear one's mind and create, whether it be a nearby mountain or a meditation center like Spirit Rock with Jack Kornfield (29m26s).
• Marc Benioff feels fortunate to have met many cool and influential people, acknowledging the impressive list of friends and acquaintances he has (29m40s).

Why Marc calls Salesforce the “25-year startup” (29m53s)

• Marc Benioff often hears about startups trying to disrupt Salesforce, criticizing the company for being complicated and having a poor user experience, but he agrees that complexity is an issue (30m8s).
• Despite this, Salesforce continues to grow, with its stock at an all-time high, but Benioff finds the stock to be distracting and encourages his employees not to focus on it, as money is not the ultimate goal (30m29s).
• Benioff views himself as a startup CEO and entrepreneur, considering Salesforce a "25-year startup" despite being a 75,000-person company with a large market cap, and believes that the journey, not the financial rewards, is the true reward (31m3s).
• Benioff takes on various roles at Salesforce, from CEO to product manager, and views the company as being at the beginning of its journey, with new products and industries emerging, such as the digital labor industry and the product Agent Force (31m19s).
• Benioff is inspired by Steve Jobs' philosophy that the journey is the reward, and he applies this mindset to his work at Salesforce (30m52s).

Agentforce (31m47s)

• Agentforce is a significant focus area, representing a big bet, and when people hear the word "agent," they often wonder what it means and what it can do (31m48s).
• An example of an agent can be seen in the movie Minority Report, where the main character, Tom Cruise, is recognized by a digital store display that offers him personalized recommendations based on his purchase history and preferences (32m7s).
• An agent is not just a digital entity but can also be a physical device, such as a robot or a car, that understands and adapts to an individual's needs and preferences (33m0s).
• In a healthcare context, an agent can assist with tasks such as reminding patients to take medication, scheduling appointments, and providing personalized advice, thereby reducing the workload of medical professionals and improving patient care (33m21s).
• The use of agents and AI can help alleviate the burnout faced by medical professionals, particularly in the post-pandemic era, by automating routine tasks and enabling more efficient communication with patients (33m57s).
• A study published in the New York Times compared the diagnostic abilities of a doctor, chat GPT, and a doctor assisted by chat GPT, and found that chat GPT alone often provided more accurate diagnoses due to the absence of human bias (35m27s).

Why Marc says AI is the defining technology of our lifetime (36m9s)

• Marc Benioff considers AI as the defining technology of our lifetime, stating that its impact surpasses numerous waves of innovation he has witnessed in Silicon Valley throughout his career (36m10s).
• Benioff's realization of AI's significance occurred over a series of decades, influenced by movies like "War Games" and "Minority Report," as well as books such as "Ghost Fleet" (36m26s).
• At Salesforce, Benioff has been preparing for the development of AI, particularly with the creation of the Einstein platform and the more recent Agent Force platform (37m5s).
• Salesforce is expected to process around two trillion AI transactions this week, solidifying its position as the largest provider of Enterprise AI transactions globally (37m18s).
• The company's approach to AI involves automating customer touch points, aggregating data into a "data cloud," and federating that data to other sources (37m40s).
• The next step in Salesforce's AI vision is the integration of a robotic drone layer, which will utilize the platform's capabilities to resolve customer issues (38m29s).
• Benioff believes that the industry is moving towards lower-cost, easier-to-use, and more automated AI solutions, which is a powerful and rapidly evolving trend (39m5s).
• The name "Einstein" was chosen for Salesforce's AI platform due to its association with artificial intelligence, and Benioff also owns the domain name einstein.com (39m30s).

AI’s impact on the workforce (40m12s)

• The impact of AI on the workforce is a concern for many, with some people worried that they will lose their jobs due to automation, but it's also creating new opportunities in different areas (40m14s).
• The workforce will need to rebalance due to AI, with some jobs being replaced by automation, such as support engineers, but new jobs will also be created in areas like account executives and sales (40m34s).
• The company is hiring more account executives and salespeople to grow the business, while reducing the number of support engineers due to the implementation of a robotic support layer (40m57s).
• The healthcare industry is an example of an area where new jobs will be created that don't exist yet, and there will be a need for people to fill these roles (41m8s).
• Not all jobs will be replaced by AI, and many industries, such as blue-collar jobs in small towns, will be less impacted by automation (41m36s).
• The impact of AI on jobs will vary depending on the location, with larger cities like San Francisco likely to be more affected than smaller towns (42m5s).
• The company's current hiring trends reflect this shift, with support jobs trending down and account executive and sales jobs trending up (42m22s).

Entrepreneurs need to be like conductors (42m31s)

• Many founders today are product-minded and product-oriented, focusing on building a product first, but it's essential to remember that a successful company requires a balance of product, sales, marketing, and other aspects, as seen in the example of Salesforce, which is sales and marketing-led, but also has a strong product core (42m32s).
• For product-oriented founders who may be hesitant to lean into sales, it's crucial to recognize that sales is a vital part of the business, and using Salesforce as an example, the company's success is not just about the product, but also about sales, marketing, and other factors (42m55s).
• The story of Salesforce's Agent Force is an example of how a company can accelerate a product's development and release, and how it's essential to have a big-picture mindset, considering all stakeholders, including customers, employees, investors, and shareholders (43m50s).
• The acquisition of Airkit, a company founded by a great entrepreneur who had previously sold his company RelateIQ to Salesforce, accelerated the development of Agent Force, demonstrating the importance of strategic partnerships and investments (44m11s).
• To be a successful entrepreneur, one needs to be like an orchestra leader, playing the whole symphony, not just one instrument, and considering all aspects of the business, including sales, service, marketing, product, and stakeholders (45m11s).
• Having a narrow focus on just one aspect of the business, such as product and technology, can be a disservice to oneself and others, and it's essential to have a big mind to think about all stakeholders and aspects of the company (45m51s).

Failure corner (46m2s)

• Marc Benioff shares a story of a big struggle he faced two years ago when his company went through a huge transformation, which included a layoff of 10% of the company to save it (46m4s).
• The layoff was necessary due to over-hiring during the pandemic, which was a new experience for Benioff, and he notes that many companies in Silicon Valley made the same mistake (47m12s).
• Benioff mentions that he didn't want to do the layoff, but it was necessary to adjust the company's headcount after coming out of the pandemic (47m19s).
• He recalls that the layoff was a painful process, and he faced criticism on Twitter and in the press, which required him to develop a thicker skin (48m7s).
• Benioff notes that the company had to go through a financial transformation, which included the layoff, as well as a technology and product innovation transformation (48m50s).
• He acknowledges that the process was not easy, but it was necessary to achieve the company's current success, and he was in shock that he had to go through it after 23 years of running the company (49m12s).
• Benioff's friend, Michael Dell, is quoted as saying that there is no linear success, and that stock charts are not always a perfect upward line (49m39s).
• Benioff emphasizes that entrepreneurship is a roller coaster ride with constant challenges and changes, and that one must be prepared to face them (50m24s).

The future of AI agents (50m32s)

• Marc Benioff believes that agents are one of the most important things the industry will work on, and everyone will eventually move to agents (50m56s).
• Many major companies, including Google, Microsoft, Oracle, and SAP, are now working on agents, which is a positive development as it creates a competitive market (51m7s).
• Benioff thinks that being the only company working on a solution is a problem, and instead, companies should strive to be in a competitive market where they can improve and move forward (51m29s).
• He references the Japanese concept of Kaizen, which means continuous improvement, and believes that this mindset is necessary for companies to stay ahead in the industry (52m4s).
• Benioff thinks that as a founder, one should be excited about the next innovation or challenge, rather than being afraid of it, and should be willing to take risks and learn from failures (53m0s).
• He reflects on how the technology industry has changed over the past few decades, with technology becoming lower-cost, easier to use, and more automated (53m17s).
• Benioff started his career in the industry working on a computer with 4K of RAM and sold his first piece of software for $75 to a magazine in California (53m31s).
• He notes that the software was delivered via cassette tape, as there were no discs at the time, and the command to load the software was "cassette load" in basic (54m2s).
• Marc Benioff sold his first software, a guide on how to juggle, to a magazine for $75 when he was 15 years old in high school in California, and his parents didn't understand the significance of the transaction at the time (54m17s).
• Benioff believes in having a growth mindset, constantly looking for the next great thing, success, or failure, and learning from experiences to evolve and grow (55m2s).
• He wants to maintain this mindset throughout his life, embracing growth and learning from failures (55m12s).
• Benioff is excited about the future and wants to be at the forefront of it, welcoming customers to new innovations and technologies (55m42s).
• He admires Elon Musk's ability to envision and work towards the future, undertaking unusual projects and developing companies that will drive future technologies, such as robots, brain-machine interfaces, and electric cars (55m57s).

Final thoughts and farewell (56m34s)

• The conversation with Marc Benioff has come to a close, and it is a beautiful place to end the discussion (56m36s).
• Marc Benioff expresses his gratitude for being on the podcast and appreciates the opportunity to talk about entrepreneurship (56m41s).
• He also thanks the host, Lenny, for everything he is doing for the industry and for entrepreneurs everywhere (56m45s).
• The host, Lenny, reciprocates the gratitude and thanks Marc Benioff for his time (56m48s).
• The episode concludes with a farewell message, thanking the listeners for tuning in (56m51s).
• Listeners are encouraged to subscribe to the show on various podcast platforms, such as Apple Podcast, Spotify, or their favorite podcast app (56m56s).
• The audience is also asked to consider giving the show a rating or leaving a review to help other listeners find the podcast (57m3s).
• All past episodes and more information about the show can be found at Lenny podcast.com (57m9s).
• The host bids farewell, looking forward to the next episode (57m14s).