DEI, Gender & the Military | J.O. Michel Maisonneuve, Barbara Maisonneuve, & Mark Norman | EP 468

Coming up (0s)

• The speaker acknowledges that Canadians enjoy a high level of privilege and wealth, but emphasizes that this is a fragile situation that should not be taken for granted.
• The speaker highlights the importance of recognizing that Canada is part of a complex global system, and that many aspects of Canadian life, both domestically and internationally, depend on a secure global order.
• The speaker expresses concern that this global system is under threat, but emphasizes that it is a real and important issue.

Intro (36s)

• This episode of the YouTube series dives into the state of the Canadian military, exploring the challenges it faces in terms of personnel retention and recruitment. The episode also examines the broader cultural context, specifically the relationship between postmodernism, critical race theory, DEI initiatives, and the military, which is seen as a traditionally patriarchal institution.
• The episode features three guests: Mark Norman, a retired naval officer; Michelle Maisonneuve, a retired army officer; and Barbara Maisonneuve, a retired air force officer. Each guest shares their experiences and insights into the challenges facing the Canadian military.
• The episode aims to provide a nuanced understanding of the issues facing the Canadian military, acknowledging that the problems go beyond simply implementing DEI initiatives. The guests will discuss the importance of the military in Canada, its role in the future, and the specific challenges it faces.

The state of Canada’s military: crisis (6m0s)

• The Canadian Armed Forces are in a state of crisis. This crisis is multifaceted and includes a lack of public understanding of the need for a strong military, a rapidly deteriorating global security situation, chronic underfunding and under-support, a human resources problem with both quantity and quality issues, and equipment procurement and maintenance challenges.
• Canada's reliance on the US for defense is unsustainable. While Canada has historically benefited from the US's military strength, this approach is no longer viable. The US is increasingly demanding that its allies contribute more to collective defense, and Canada's failure to do so is damaging its international reputation.
• The Canadian military is underappreciated and demoralized. The lack of support from the government, the public, and even within the institution itself is leading to low morale and a sense of being undervalued. This is particularly concerning given the demanding nature of military service and the sacrifices that soldiers, sailors, and aviators make.

Canada is undefended (19m21s)

• The speaker highlights the evolving nature of military threats, emphasizing the difficulty in pinpointing a single primary threat. This necessitates a highly adaptable and intelligent defense team constantly reassessing the shifting landscape.
• Cybersecurity is identified as a significant and evolving threat, alongside the emergence of inexpensive drones. These factors pose a challenge to traditional military equipment and strategies.
• The speaker acknowledges the need for a capable Canadian military, capable of responding to a wide range of threats. This includes protecting Canadians from threats in the north, particularly given the proximity to Russia. The speaker also emphasizes the importance of international cooperation and participation in alliances like NATO, NORAD, and the UN.

The strength of the Canadian military (21m58s)

• The Canadian military is seen as a force for good and diplomacy, often acting as a bridge between conflicting parties. This is due to Canada's reputation for being non-offensive and having a history of promoting freedom and liberty.
• Canadians are perceived as approachable and trustworthy, making them effective in building relationships and fostering cooperation in international settings. This is in contrast to the American military, which can sometimes be seen as more aggressive or imposing.
• The Canadian military's reputation for neutrality and peacekeeping has earned it respect and trust from diverse groups. This allows them to operate in sensitive situations and build bridges between conflicting parties, as exemplified by the anecdote about the Israeli soldier's comment about a Canadian-led peacekeeping mission.

Global representation has changed for the worse (23m55s)

• The perception of Canada's role in the world has shifted negatively. While Canadian soldiers and military leaders have always been seen as competent and capable, the global perception of Canada's values and its role in international affairs has changed. There is a sense that Canada is no longer seen as a nation that stands for something or makes a meaningful contribution to global issues.
• Canada's political rhetoric has focused too heavily on social values, neglecting national interests. This shift in focus has led to a lack of clarity about Canada's role in the world and has even raised questions about the importance of national identity and institutions.
• Canada's unique linguistic and cultural diversity presents a significant advantage in international relations. The fact that many Canadian soldiers and officers are bilingual in English and French allows them to communicate effectively with a wider range of nations, fostering diplomatic relationships and facilitating international cooperation. This unique strength, however, is not being fully leveraged due to the current perception of Canada's role in the world.

The prime threats: a continuum of concerns (27m22s)

• The conversation about military capability in Canada needs to shift from a focus on physical invasion to a broader understanding of threats to international systems. While a traditional military invasion of Canada is unlikely, other powers are increasingly using military capabilities to influence events around the world, including in Canada's own backyard. These actions threaten the international systems that underpin Canada's lifestyle and prosperity.
• These threats are not limited to the military sphere but extend to political, economic, and sociological domains. The erosion of these systems makes Canada vulnerable to a "virtual" or "ideological" invasion, which can be just as damaging as a physical attack.
• Canada's inward focus on domestic issues and lack of attention to global events make it particularly vulnerable to these threats. The current situation is arguably a generational one, where Canada is failing to recognize and address the growing vulnerabilities it faces.

Sexual misconduct, the radical “solutions” being imposed (30m30s)

• The speaker expresses concern about the Canadian military's focus on addressing sexual misconduct as a primary issue, arguing that it may not be more prevalent in the military than in other institutions like universities. He believes the military attracts highly conscientious individuals who are less likely to engage in such behavior.
• The speaker criticizes the proposed "solution" of implementing DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives, which he views as a radical, leftist, and postmodern approach that is being applied to various institutions without proper diagnosis or evidence. He believes this approach is misguided and could be detrimental to the military's warrior culture.
• The speaker highlights the potential for overemphasis and amplification of sexual misconduct issues in the military, arguing that it could create a negative perception of the institution and discourage potential recruits. He emphasizes the importance of comparative analysis to demonstrate the true prevalence of the problem and avoid unnecessary alarm.

Off-duty discipline, letting off steam from high stress work (38m30s)

• The discussion revolves around the issue of alcohol consumption and its potential impact on off-duty behavior in the military, particularly in relation to sexual misconduct. The speaker acknowledges the prevalence of alcohol-fueled misconduct and questions whether it is more common in the Canadian Armed Forces compared to other professions.
• The speaker explores the effects of alcohol on individuals, highlighting its ability to narrow focus, reduce awareness of threats, and potentially lead to reckless behavior. They also consider the unique pressures faced by military personnel, particularly those in high-stress environments, and the need for them to "blow off steam" after intense periods of service.
• The speaker shares personal experiences and observations from their time in the military, noting a shift in attitudes towards alcohol consumption over time. They describe a transition from a culture of heavy drinking to a more health-conscious approach, with younger generations opting for alternative forms of relaxation and stress management. The speaker emphasizes the importance of establishing clear behavioral norms and adapting them to evolving societal values. They also highlight the role of leadership in addressing issues related to alcohol consumption and misconduct, citing an example of a ban on drinking at sea implemented to address concerns raised by senior non-commissioned officers.

How change occurs in a military institution (45m26s)

• Change in the military is slow and difficult. The speaker references the saying that it's harder to remove an old idea from the military mind than it is to introduce a new one. This highlights the deeply ingrained traditions and resistance to change within military institutions.
• Respect and understanding are crucial for positive change. The speaker emphasizes the importance of fostering a culture of respect and understanding for individuals from diverse backgrounds. This includes rooting out predatory behavior and ensuring that victims have safe and accessible avenues to report incidents.
• Failures in leadership are at the root of many issues. The speaker points out that many problems within the military stem from failures in leadership. This includes situations where victims feel unable to report incidents due to a lack of support from their chain of command.

How women adapt to the armed forces (47m47s)

• Women in the military are often more outspoken and assertive, which may contribute to their ability to navigate unwanted attention. The speaker, Barbara Maisonneuve, believes that women in the military are not as susceptible to harassment as some might assume, and that there were ample resources available for those who did experience it. She finds it difficult to believe that women had nowhere to turn for help.
• The speaker recounts her own experiences with male colleagues in the military, highlighting a lack of understanding and discomfort with the presence of women. She describes an instance where a male colleague was unsure how to react to her changing a tire, demonstrating a lack of familiarity with women performing traditionally male tasks.
• The speaker emphasizes that men and women are not interchangeable, and that there are inherent differences between the genders. She expresses her discomfort with the idea that men and women should be treated the same in all situations, suggesting that there are unique challenges and experiences that each gender faces.

Men’s and women’s roles are not interchangeable (51m55s)

• The speaker expresses concern about the potential for "infantilization" within institutions as more women are integrated. He argues that while the integration of women into the workforce is positive, it's unclear how this will affect the dynamics of institutions, particularly in the military. He believes that there are inherent differences between men and women that cannot be ignored.
• The speaker believes that men and women are not interchangeable, particularly in combat roles. He cites the potential consequences for women captured as prisoners of war as a primary concern. He also emphasizes the importance of meritocracy and believes that women should be assigned roles based on their individual skills and abilities, not simply to meet quotas.
• The speaker acknowledges that women have a valuable role to play in the military, but emphasizes that this role is not necessarily interchangeable with that of men. He uses the example of military police work, where women may be better suited to handle situations involving sexual assault or domestic abuse, while men may be better suited for physical confrontations. He also highlights the challenges women face in international relations due to cultural differences and gender biases.

Advantages of having women enlist (56m24s)

• Women bring a unique perspective to military operations. The speaker notes that women can be an asset in foreign relations, as they are often seen as a novelty and can use this to their advantage. They also bring a calming influence to tense situations, helping to de-escalate conflict.
• Diversity of thought is crucial for problem-solving. The speaker emphasizes the importance of having diverse perspectives when tackling challenges, whether strategic, operational, or tactical. Women offer a different way of viewing issues and can contribute valuable insights to decision-making.
• Integrating women into combat roles presents challenges and opportunities. While the speaker acknowledges the physical demands of combat roles, he believes that women should be allowed to serve if they meet the required standards. He also highlights the need for leadership to adapt to a more diverse force, requiring a shift away from traditional command styles.

Technical skills, physical requirements, and the ill-defined social aspects (59m22s)

• The military is a complex environment with three key aspects: technical skills, physical requirements, and social dynamics. The speaker uses a Venn diagram analogy to illustrate these aspects, emphasizing that the social aspect is often ill-defined and difficult to understand.
• The speaker argues that the idea of achieving a 50% female representation in the military is unrealistic and based on a flawed understanding of human nature. He cites research showing that while men and women are similar in cognitive abilities, they differ significantly in their interests, with men being more interested in things and women more interested in people. This difference, he argues, is a major factor in occupational choices and explains the persistent gender gap in fields like engineering and nursing.
• The speaker further points out that even in highly egalitarian societies, where systemic barriers to occupational choice are minimized, the gender gap in certain fields persists and even widens. This suggests that the differences in occupational choices are not solely due to cultural factors but are rooted in fundamental differences in interests. He concludes that forcing a 50% female representation in the military would be counterproductive and would likely lead to a decline in overall effectiveness.

Jocko Willink, the role of the mentor (1h5m23s)

• Jocko Willink, a former Navy SEAL, emphasized the importance of mentorship in his life, stating that it was the best thing he ever found. He described his own experience as a rough adolescent who could have gone down a criminal path but found direction and purpose in the military.
• Willink's perspective on mentorship highlights the importance of encouragement and support, rather than solely focusing on protection. This aligns with the role men often play in families, where they engage in rough and tumble play with their children, encouraging them rather than sheltering them.
• The discussion acknowledges the importance of the mission in a military context, recognizing that sometimes difficult decisions need to be made, even if they involve sending someone home who is not medically fit. This prioritization of the mission can sometimes necessitate a shift away from nurturing and care, highlighting the complex nature of leadership in a military setting.

Progressive ideals are at odds with the purpose of the institution (1h6m58s)

• There is a fundamental tension between the goals of progressive ideals and the core purpose of the military. The military's primary function is to be mission-focused and prepared for combat. This inherent purpose may clash with the implementation of progressive initiatives like DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion).
• The speaker argues that the emphasis on DEI principles within the Canadian Forces has been driven by the government's progressive ideology. This emphasis, according to the speaker, has taken precedence over military effectiveness and operational capability.
• The speaker believes that the focus on DEI has been "forced" upon the military, potentially hindering its ability to fulfill its primary mission. This shift in priorities may create challenges for military leaders who are trying to maintain focus on operational readiness.

Removing meritocracy demoralizes, the best predictor for military enlistment (1h9m21s)

• The emphasis on individual identity over team unity is detrimental to military morale. The speaker argues that the military's focus on DEI initiatives, which prioritize individual representation over meritocratic selection, undermines the core values of the military. He believes that the military should prioritize selecting the best candidates, regardless of their background, to ensure the highest level of competence and effectiveness.
• The speaker criticizes the government's approach to military recruitment and leadership. He argues that the government's focus on DEI quotas and its lack of emphasis on the importance of service and patriotism are demoralizing to military personnel. He believes that the government's actions are alienating conscientious individuals, who are typically drawn to the military's values of duty, order, and hierarchy.
• The speaker highlights the decline in military morale and the potential consequences. He cites reports from the Canadian chaplain general and other sources indicating a significant drop in morale among military personnel. He attributes this decline to a combination of factors, including the government's policies, the lack of support from senior leadership, and the perception that the military's core values are being undermined.

What senior leadership needs to do (1h17m8s)

• The speakers believe that General Karna, the first female to hold her position, has the potential to make a positive impact on the military, but they are concerned that she may not be given the necessary authority and resources to implement meaningful change. They worry that the institution may not be any better off at the end of her term than it was at the beginning.
• The speakers discuss the challenges of attracting and retaining personnel in the military, particularly fighter pilots. They attribute this shortage to the implementation of DEI initiatives, which they believe have alienated some potential recruits and led to a decline in the "warrior mentality."
• The speakers express concern about the effectiveness of DEI programs in the military, arguing that they have not addressed the underlying issues of personnel shortages and have instead created a quota system that may be hindering recruitment. They believe that the focus on DEI has come at the expense of other priorities, such as training and retention.

The short- and long-term consequences, “we are incapable of contributing” (1h23m27s)

• The text discusses the challenges of achieving diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) goals in the Canadian military, particularly in relation to recruitment and representation. The speakers argue that the stringent requirements for roles like fighter pilots, combined with the limited pool of potential candidates from diverse backgrounds, make it nearly impossible to achieve meaningful DEI representation. They highlight the disparity between the academic realm, where minority candidates have a better chance of success, and the military, where the lack of qualified and interested individuals from diverse backgrounds makes achieving DEI goals unrealistic.
• The conversation then shifts to the broader issue of Canada's military preparedness and the potential consequences of its current state. The speakers emphasize the urgency of the situation, highlighting the growing crisis in recruitment, demoralization, and the inability to adequately address emerging threats. They argue that Canada's lack of preparedness poses a significant risk to its security and its ability to contribute meaningfully to global security systems.
• The speakers express concern about the lack of public awareness and political will to address the military's challenges. They argue that the public, if properly informed, would support increased military spending and a more robust defense policy. They criticize the current government's lack of leadership on this issue, emphasizing the need for a Prime Minister who prioritizes military service and invests in its modernization and improvement. They also call for greater visibility and recognition of military heroes and the need for military leadership to be more vocal in advocating for the needs of the armed forces.

People are speaking out, but we need more (1h31m7s)

• The text discusses the importance of military leaders speaking out about the challenges they face, even if it means going against government directives. The conversation highlights two examples: Vice Admiral Topi, who made a video about the challenges facing the Navy, and Vice Admiral Octone, who spoke openly about the dangers facing Canada in a media interview.
• The speakers argue that these actions demonstrate that military leaders can speak out about important issues without violating the chain of command. They emphasize that loyalty is crucial, but that the government can be pushed back when it oversteps its bounds.
• The text concludes by suggesting that public pronouncements from military leaders are both possible and appropriate. The speakers believe that these pronouncements can inform the public and the military personnel themselves about the realities of their work.

Don’t allow politics to dissuade you from serving your country (1h34m23s)

• Don't let politics discourage you from serving your country. Barbara Maisonneuve encourages young women to consider a career in the military, emphasizing that they are capable and should not be afraid. She encourages them to ignore negative comments and focus on the positive experiences and opportunities available.
• The military offers a fantastic career path. Mark Norman highlights the benefits of a military career, suggesting that young people consider it as a viable option. He emphasizes the diverse range of opportunities available, from technical trades to adventurous roles.
• The military provides a comprehensive and valuable experience. Norman details the benefits of attending the Military College, which offers a four-pillar program encompassing education, leadership training, bilingualism, and physical fitness. He emphasizes that graduates gain valuable skills and experience, making them highly competitive in the job market.

Security is the foundation of our global systems (1h38m17s)

• Canadians enjoy a high level of privilege and wealth, but this is fragile and dependent on a secure global system.
• This global system is under threat, not from a physical invasion, but from a broader, more esoteric threat that is real and coming.
• Canada needs to be part of the solution to protect this system, or it risks losing the values and way of life that Canadians cherish.