Jordan Jonas: Survival, Hunting, Siberia, God, and Winning Alone Season 6 | Lex Fridman Podcast #437

Introduction rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:00:00)

• This chapter introduces Jordan Jonas, the winner of Alone season 6, a survival show where contestants compete to survive alone in the Arctic Wilderness for the longest time.
• Jordan is widely recognized as one of the greatest competitors on the show, having a captivating life story that includes experiences ranging from living on a farm in Idaho to traveling with nomadic tribes in Siberia.
• This conversation with Jordan explores his journey and how it shaped him into a world-class explorer, survivor, hunter, wilderness guide, and a kind and compassionate individual.

Alone Season 6 rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:01:19)

• Alone Season 6 Overview: The show "Alone" drops 10 individuals in the wilderness with minimal supplies, and the last person remaining wins. Participants must build shelter, find food, and survive the elements, with the pressure of potential starvation looming. Jonas, a successful "Survivor" contestant, found himself drawn back to the wilderness after a few years away raising his family. He felt a sense of returning to his "Siberian headspace" and enjoyed the challenge of adapting to the harsh environment.
• Learning from Failure: Jonas emphasizes the importance of accepting failure as a natural part of pushing your limits. He recounts missing a shot at a moose, initially feeling disappointment but quickly shifting to a mindset of learning and determination. This experience led him to implement a strategy inspired by Native American hunting techniques, ultimately resulting in a successful moose hunt.
• The High Stakes of Survival: The show's unique format, where participants are truly alone and face the real possibility of starvation, creates a heightened sense of urgency and stakes. Jonas describes the intense pressure of needing to provide for himself and the feeling of being directly connected to his survival needs.
• The Moose Hunt: Jonas details his successful moose hunt, highlighting the emotional rollercoaster of excitement, nervousness, and relief. He emphasizes the importance of ethical hunting practices, aiming for a quick and humane kill. He also discusses the significance of the moose as a source of sustenance and the deep gratitude he felt for the animal.
• Bow Hunting and the Predator-Prey Relationship: Jonas explains the unique challenges and rewards of bow hunting, which requires close proximity to the animal and a heightened sense of awareness. He describes the intimate connection with the animal and the mental chess game involved in outsmarting prey. He also emphasizes the importance of practice and ethical hunting techniques.
• Survival Strategies and Adaptability: Jonas shares his initial plan for "Alone," which involved fishing, preserving fish, and attracting a bear to the fish pile. However, the actual environment differed from his expectations, forcing him to adapt and focus on moose hunting. He stresses the importance of adaptability and being active in finding sustainable food sources, often a combination of fishing, trapping, and hunting.
• The Flow State of Wilderness Life: Jonas describes the unscheduled nature of wilderness life, where tasks are tackled as they arise. He emphasizes the importance of instinct and experience in making decisions about shelter placement, food gathering, and overall survival. He also highlights the creative process involved in adapting to the environment and finding solutions to challenges.
• Shelter Construction and the Importance of Simplicity: Jonas opted for a simple A-frame shelter, prioritizing calorie acquisition over elaborate construction. He believes in starting with a functional shelter and gradually improving it over time. He also discusses the importance of smoke management and creating a warm, airtight space.
• The Metaphor of Prototyping and Improvement: Jonas draws a parallel between the process of building a functional shelter and the success of companies. He emphasizes the importance of starting with a working prototype and iteratively improving it based on feedback and changing conditions. This approach allows for rapid adaptation and optimization.

Arctic rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:35:38)

• Jordan Jonas describes the Canadian Arctic as a remote and beautiful area with thousands of lakes. He believes it was a perfect location for the show "Alone" because it offered enough resources and challenges to reward activity. He also mentions the connection between the Den people who lived in the area and the KET people in Siberia, highlighting the fascinating ways language can reveal historical connections.
• Jonas discusses the importance of staying warm in the Arctic, emphasizing the need to never let oneself get too cold to avoid frostbite. He shares his personal experience with the cold, describing how it can be both invigorating and dangerous. He believes that with proper preparation and a positive mindset, one can learn to appreciate the cold.
• Jonas reveals that he was not particularly hungry during his time on "Alone" due to the abundance of berries and the success of his hunting and fishing. He contrasts this experience with his time in Siberia, where he lost significantly more weight. He also discusses the psychological challenges of the competition, particularly the uncertainty of its duration and the pressure to perform well.
• Jonas reflects on his ability to endure the harsh conditions and the boredom that came with it. He credits his experience in Siberia for giving him a broader perspective on time and the ability to accept the passing of time. He also shares his strategies for staying busy and entertained, including creating elaborate skits and reenactments.
• Jonas acknowledges the power of documenting one's experiences, both for sharing with others and for providing a sense of purpose and connection. He believes that even in the most extreme situations, the act of sharing can provide strength and motivation. He also contemplates the psychological impact of being the last person on Earth, suggesting that the desire to connect with others would be a powerful driving force.

Roland Welker rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:51:53)

• Jordan Jonas and Roland Welker are both considered successful competitors on the show "Alone." Jonas believes he would have had more food than Welker, but Welker had the advantage of knowing the show's 100-day time limit. Jonas found the uncertainty of not knowing when the show would end to be the most challenging aspect, as it made it difficult to ration food and maintain motivation.
• Jonas was surprised to win the show, as he had not considered the possibility until the helicopters arrived. He had assumed that others were still competing and that the show would continue for a longer period.
• Jonas's diet on the show consisted of three meals a day, primarily moose meat, fish stew, and occasional reindeer or lycan. He felt good on this low-carb diet, but believes he would have felt better with a higher percentage of fat.
• Jonas learned the importance of protecting food from animals, and eventually built a food cache to prevent mice, birds, and other animals from accessing his supplies.
• Jonas experienced rabbit starvation, a condition where the body expends more calories processing protein than it receives from the food. He learned this the hard way after eating a large number of rabbits in the early days of the show.
• Jonas believes that fat is essential for survival, and that observing animals' eating habits can provide insights into the most nutritious parts of prey.
• Jonas prefers to eat a clean diet, focusing on meat and vegetables, and enjoys eating a variety of foods when he is not restricted by the show's rules.

Freight trains rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(00:59:29)

• Jordan Jonas, known as "Hobo Jordo" on Instagram, discusses his experience riding freight trains across the United States. He explains that his brother, who had been traveling by train for several years, invited him to join him. Jordan quit his job and spent a year riding trains, experiencing a sense of freedom and a right of passage. He emphasizes that he rode in air-conditioned cars, unlike the "real hobos" who travel for years on end.
• Jordan describes the impact of this experience on his perspective, stating that it gave him a different view of life and a sense of freedom that was hard to replicate. He learned about the United States and its people, particularly those living in less affluent areas, and gained a broader understanding of human nature.
• Jordan shares stories about memorable characters he met during his travels, including Rocco, a sober and honest man with a unique perspective on the world, and Dvo, a charismatic individual who struggled with addiction but possessed a vibrant energy. He reflects on the resilience and joy he observed in people who had endured hardship, highlighting the importance of appreciating life despite challenges.

Siberia rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:11:14)

• Jordan Jonas's journey to Siberia began with his adopted brother's search for his biological mother. This led to a connection with his brother's biological sibling who was building an orphanage in Russia. Jordan felt a strong calling to go and help, despite being in a period of personal darkness and questioning his faith.
• He went to Russia, learned the language, and lived with Russian families in a village. He was then introduced to a fur trapper named Ura who invited him to live with him in the north. This experience opened up a whole new world for Jordan, immersing him in the traditional way of life of Siberian fur trappers.
• Jordan's time in Siberia was marked by challenges, including language barriers, isolation, and misunderstandings. He found strength in his faith and his commitment to love and compassion, which he expressed through his actions and interactions with the people he met. He learned the Russian language, which he found to be rich and nuanced, and he experienced the beauty and difficulty of the Siberian wilderness through fur trapping.

Hunger rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:29:40)

• Jordan Jonas recounts his experience with extreme hunger while working on a reindeer fence in Siberia. He lost a significant amount of weight and endured difficult conditions, including injuries from using an axe. He describes the intense hunger he felt, even witnessing others grab food before he could get his share.
• Jonas discusses the unique axe he received as a gift from the native Siberians. He explains the axe's design features, including its single-sided sharpening, which makes it ideal for working with wood in the forest. He emphasizes the importance of a good axe for survival in the wilderness, particularly for starting fires in wet conditions.
• Jonas shares a story about injuring himself with the axe while in a state of frustration. He describes the pain and immobility he experienced, highlighting the importance of caution and control when using such a dangerous tool.
• Jonas discusses the importance of finding dry wood for starting fires in wet conditions. He explains how to identify and utilize dead standing trees, which often contain dry wood even in heavy rain. He also mentions the use of fatwood, a resin-infused pine wood that burns readily even when wet.
• Jonas compares the lifestyle of the Siberian natives he encountered to the one depicted in the film "Happy People." He observes that while the natives in the village often struggle with alcoholism and violence, those living a traditional lifestyle in the wilderness appear happier and more connected to nature. He suggests that this disconnect between village life and wilderness life might be due to the lack of self-awareness and the allure of comfort.
• Jonas reflects on the nature of happiness and the importance of pursuing a meaningful life. He draws inspiration from the Gulag Archipelago, where he learned that pursuing happiness directly can lead to a loss of one's soul. Instead, he advocates for pursuing a life of love, duty, and spiritual fullness, believing that happiness may come as a byproduct.
• Jonas shares his personal experience of finding purpose and happiness through pursuing a life of wilderness guiding. He acknowledges that this path was not without its challenges, but he ultimately found fulfillment and a loving family, despite not directly aiming for those things. He suggests that pursuing a meaningful life, rather than happiness itself, can lead to unexpected and fulfilling outcomes.

Suffering rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(01:49:23)

• Jordan Jonas shares his family history of suffering, tracing back to the Armenian Assyrian genocide and the Nazi occupation of France. His grandparents, who were Assyrians, experienced the horrors of the genocide during World War I. His grandfather narrowly escaped death after being tied up and left for dead, while his grandmother and her family were forced into the desert, where they endured unimaginable hardships. Both of his grandparents lost their families and were forced to flee to Baghdad, where they eventually met and started a family. They later immigrated to France, just before the Nazi invasion. His aunt, who was still alive at the time of the interview, met a resistance fighter and fell in love, becoming involved in the French Resistance.
• Jonas reflects on the resilience of his family and how they were able to overcome such immense suffering. He acknowledges that he is only one generation removed from these traumatic events, yet he doesn't carry the same level of trauma. He attributes this to his grandparents' ability to build a happy and loving family despite their experiences. He believes that their gratitude for surviving the genocide and the Nazi occupation helped them to move forward and find joy in life.
• Jonas discusses the importance of faith in God as a way to combat evil and find humility. He believes that faith can provide a perspective from which to judge oneself and ensure that one is walking in line with a higher ideal. He also suggests that humility can help to avoid the slippery slope towards evil, as it acknowledges the complexity of the world and the difficulty of knowing who is truly good or bad. He recognizes that many atrocities have been committed by people who were convinced of their own righteousness, and he emphasizes the importance of love, forgiveness, and humility in navigating the complexities of human nature.

God rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(02:04:09)

• Jordan Jonas discusses the importance of religion and morality. He believes that religion provides a "substrate" for morality, giving us a framework for understanding right and wrong, beauty, and higher values. He compares it to a base layer that helps us navigate the complexities of life.
• Jonas shares his personal experience with psychedelics and its impact on his understanding of God. He describes a profound experience where he felt connected to a formless, infinite entity, but also realized the limitations of trying to define God through any specific form. He believes that stories and religions provide a way to relate to this formless entity, even though they inevitably impose boundaries and limitations.
• Jonas emphasizes the importance of striving for good and the constant struggle between good and evil within each individual. He believes that we all have the capacity for both, and that it's a daily choice to move towards the ideal of being a good person. He draws inspiration from the resilience and wisdom of grandmothers, who have witnessed the full spectrum of human behavior and continue to strive for good.

Mortality rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(02:19:10)

• Jordan Jonas discussed his experience with mortality, drawing on his father's passing and a near-death experience he had while siphoning gas in Siberia. He described feeling possessed by the gas and experiencing a sense of impending doom, even writing a note to his family before passing out.
• Jonas believes that Greenland is one of the harshest places to survive on Earth, citing the Vikings' failed attempts to settle there and the limited food sources. He acknowledges that the Inuit have adapted to the harsh conditions, but it remains a challenging environment.
• Jonas finds it fascinating how animals, like polar bears, have evolved to survive in extreme environments, highlighting their resilience and the challenges they face. He reflects on the tough existence of all creatures, particularly those living in harsh climates like mountains and forests.

Resilience rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(02:24:54)

• Jordan Jonas discusses the mental resilience required for survival situations. He believes that losing a child would be the most difficult thing to endure, but he draws hope from his family history of resilience. He acknowledges that he hasn't yet reached his mental limit, but he knows it exists. He believes that the hardest part of a survival situation is when there's a way out, making it easier to quit.
• Jonas emphasizes the importance of physical health in survival. He understands why people quit when they're causing permanent damage to their bodies, but he believes that enduring pain is necessary when there's no other option. He also highlights the impact of physical ailments like headaches and back pain on mental well-being, drawing inspiration from people who find joy despite chronic pain.
• Jonas shares his experience of spending five weeks alone in the forest. He describes how this solitude forced him to confront his inner demons and unresolved issues. He believes that spending time alone in nature is essential for self-reflection and mental health, as it allows us to confront our thoughts and feelings without distractions. He recommends spending time in nature, even if it's just a short hike, and encourages people to plan overnight trips to experience the transformative power of solitude.

Hope rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(02:36:40)

• Jordan Jonas expresses hope for the future of human civilization, acknowledging the incredible advancements in technology, food security, and medicine that we enjoy today. He contrasts this with the simpler, more direct relationship to needs experienced by indigenous communities, but recognizes that modern comforts are essential for avoiding hardship and suffering.
• Jonas acknowledges the potential dangers of powerful technology, particularly nuclear weapons, and the need for humanity to be vigilant and responsible in its use. He believes that the very sharpness of the "knife's edge" we walk on can serve as a wake-up call, forcing us to be more mindful and avoid catastrophic mistakes.
• Jonas emphasizes the importance of having children as a tangible connection to the future and a source of hope. He expresses his desire to share his love for the wilderness with Lex Fridman, inviting him to join him on an adventure.

Lex AMA rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(02:39:24)

• Lex Fridman expresses his belief that wishing Donald Trump good health after an assassination attempt is a human statement, not a partisan one. He emphasizes that he is not right-wing or left-wing, but rather approaches each issue with an open mind and empathy.
• He argues that the attempted assassination of Donald Trump should serve as a reminder that history can turn on a single moment, citing the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand as an example. He warns that extreme division can lead to destructive consequences, and that we must avoid sliding into it.
• Lex Fridman believes that conspiracy theories, while often false, serve as a check on power and corruption. He criticizes the lack of transparency surrounding the Secret Service's failure to protect Donald Trump, arguing that the truth needs to be revealed to restore trust and unity. He emphasizes that transparency is crucial to prevent the kind of destabilizing events that can tear societies apart.