Heaven, Hell, & the Human Condition | Jack Symes | Ep 478

Coming up (0s)

• Humans seek meaning from an indifferent universe. (0s)
• Acknowledging the lack of inherent meaning in the world can lead to discomfort. (12s)
• Living honestly and authentically requires embracing the search for meaning in a world that doesn't readily offer it. (23s)

Intro (34s)

• Dr. Jack Symes is a public philosopher and researcher at Durham University. (46s)
• He is also the editor of the “Talking About Philosophy” book series and host of the Panpsycast Philosophy podcast. (1m5s)
• This chapter of the video is an introduction to a conversation about the nature of belief, particularly in the context of Western society. (3m10s)

Consciousness and carbon (3m34s)

• Elon Musk believes that consciousness emerged at some point after the beginning of the universe 13.8 billion years ago. (4m14s)
• Consciousness is defined as subjective experiences such as seeing loved ones, experiencing regret, or performing simple calculations. (4m38s)
• It is proposed that consciousness is fundamental and was present in a rudimentary form from the beginning of the universe, similar to the physical properties that allowed for the development of complex structures like eyes and ears. (5m51s)

The philosophical view of consciousness (6m17s)

• Consciousness cannot be understood through methods like neuroscience and biology because they are external and consciousness is an internal, private experience. (6m36s)
• Scanning a brain cannot reveal subjective experiences like the color red, highlighting the limitations of science in understanding the true nature of consciousness. (7m1s)
• While science can identify neural correlations to consciousness, such as brain activity in response to stimuli, it cannot explain the origin or source of consciousness itself. (7m32s)

The hard problem of consciousness, intelligence without agency (7m42s)

• It is difficult to distinguish consciousness from being, and potentially from intelligence. (8m11s)
• Ancient mythology and modern neuroscience, through different mechanisms, seem to point to a model of consciousness involving a structure of interpretation, a field of possibility, and an active intermediary agent. (8m45s)
• Consciousness may be an inseparable property of being itself, a view shared by figures like Bertrand Russell, Charles Darwin, and others. (11m13s)

Three propositions for conceptualizing the Divine (12m13s)

• All perceptions and actions are based on value judgments and require a unifying ideal. (12m22s)
• These values exist on a hierarchy, culminating in a unifying concept, often associated with the Divine. (12m35s)
• Postmodern skepticism towards overarching narratives is challenged, as even the smallest actions imply a hierarchical structure of values and unity. (15m0s)

What we can discern about the nature of God (18m33s)

• God is considered to be the highest conceivable potential unity, but also inconceivable, ineffable, and receding as you approach him. (19m11s)
• Philosophers of religion generally agree that while God is not fully understandable, some of his properties, such as omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence, can be understood. (20m50s)
• Perfect being theology posits that God, as the greatest conceivable being, must possess all great-making properties, including power, goodness, and knowledge. (22m31s)

When God is too ineffable, the mechanics of Jacob’s Ladder (23m54s)

• The concept of an ineffable God can lead to a decline in belief as it becomes disconnected from humanity. (25m15s)
• The nature of God can be understood through a hierarchical and developmental lens, similar to the way humans are drawn to experiences and grow over time. (26m42s)
• Scripture can be interpreted as a reflection of the divine, similar to how aesthetic experiences can tap into a deeper rhythm or form. (28m8s)

Jordan Peterson on being an “existential Christian,” arguing for a perfect God (29m56s)

• An existential commitment to faith, as demanded by Christianity, signifies a complete and total commitment. (30m37s)
• The concept of God's perfection is considered a moot point, partly due to the belief that there is no upper limit to personal growth and striving for good. (30m53s)
• There is a critique of the modern understanding of belief, suggesting that it is improperly conceptualized and leads to a false dichotomy between Enlightenment rationalism and Christianity. (31m41s)

Jesus’ claim: the living embodiment of the pattern, Job (34m5s)

• Jesus, as the embodiment of the prophets and the law, represents the physical manifestation of the patterns of God observed in the Old Testament. (35m45s)
• Job, like Jesus, embodies the concept of radical acceptance of existence, enduring immense suffering while maintaining faith in both himself and the divine. (36m59s)
• The more radically open one is to fate, the more likely they are to experience the presence of the divine, leading to significant character development and strength, as observed in clinical settings. (40m2s)

Disagreement on the conception of existence and authentic faith (40m47s)

• There is a disagreement on whether belief in a divine being is an existential claim or a matter of trust and hope. (41m24s)
• The existence of something must be established before belief or hope can be placed in it. (41m50s)
• Authentic existence involves accepting the truth and suspending judgment on matters without sufficient evidence, leading to an agnostic perspective. (46m2s)

Feeling small in a massive universe — how meaning correlates (46m53s)

• People often feel insignificant in the context of the vastness of the universe, both in terms of size and lifespan. (47m0s)
• Neither greater size nor a longer lifespan seem to inherently provide more meaning to life. (47m17s)
• Humans crave meaning from a universe that appears indifferent, leading to a sense of absurdity and discomfort. (48m4s)

What manifested as evidence of the “transcendent good” for Jordan Peterson (49m57s)

• The speaker believes that evil is a real phenomenon and uses the example of Nazi concentration camp guards to illustrate the depths of human depravity. (51m37s)
• The speaker's investigations into the nature of evil led them to believe in a "transcendent good" that is the antithesis of evil. (53m0s)
• The speaker acknowledges the philosophical problem of evil, particularly in the context of events like the Holocaust and the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but suggests that theodicies and defenses of God's actions exist. (54m31s)

The systemic problem of evil, evolution is at odds with a perfectly good God (55m11s)

• A new version of the problem of evil argues that a perfectly good God would not have created a system like evolution by natural selection, which necessitates pain and suffering for countless creatures. (55m15s)
• This argument also poses a problem for atheists who are optimistic about the world despite acknowledging the problem of evil, suggesting they should be pessimists. (55m49s)
• The existence of pain and suffering in animals, which is likely given their similar biological systems to humans, further complicates the idea of a perfectly good God in conjunction with evolution by natural selection. (57m15s)

“By their fruits you will know them,” existence itself is intrinsically good (59m10s)

• It is argued that existence itself is intrinsically good. (1h2m3s)
• It is acknowledged that while there is suffering in the world, life itself is not intrinsically bad. (1h3m1s)
• It is suggested that the intrinsic goodness of life is a point in favor of those who believe in the value of existence. (1h3m10s)

The axes of happiness and suffering, Abraham and the covenant (1h4m23s)

• Abraham, a biblical figure, initially lived a life devoid of suffering and hardship, similar to a "childhood Paradise." (1h5m39s)
• God instructs Abraham to leave his comfortable life and embark on a journey into a challenging world filled with adversity. (1h6m17s)
• God promises Abraham that by embracing this challenging path, he will experience blessings, renown, establish a lasting legacy, and become a blessing to others. (1h7m25s)

Grounding morality: environmental versus personal reasoning (1h10m12s)

• Meaning and purpose in life are more important than hedonistic pleasure and happiness, especially for those with Abrahamic beliefs. (1h10m59s)
• Agnostics and atheists face a challenge in finding a basis for morality without appealing to a higher power or cosmic meaning. (1h12m30s)
• Humans are guided by both reason and desires, and while short-term desires can lead to suffering, a life solely driven by fragmented micro-purposes lacks motivation and stability. (1h17m31s)

The “patchwork quilt” argument, the pragmatic benefit of belief (1h20m26s)

• People who have multiple competing values may experience anxiety as a result of the inherent conflict between those values. (1h24m7s)
• The more unified an individual's aims and values are, the more positive value they will experience in pursuing those aims. (1h24m58s)
• In challenging situations, individuals may need a strong foundation of values and beliefs to avoid making poor decisions or becoming agents of evil. (1h26m47s)

Job and the prerational stance, meaning may not correspond to happiness at all (1h27m3s)

• It is suggested that theism may increase well-being and help people flourish, but truth should be the guiding principle rather than feeling good. (1h28m48s)
• The Book of Job suggests that it is morally incumbent upon individuals to manifest courageous faith, even in the absence of evidence. (1h30m56s)
• The Abrahamic vision suggests that humans are not built for hedonistic infantilism and that the world is not solely about pain and pleasure, but rather an intermingling of both. (1h34m20s)