Rethinking SEO in the age of AI | Eli Schwartz (SEO advisor, author)

Eli’s background (0s)

• Eli Schwarz is a growth advisor specializing in SEO. (56s)
• He has worked with companies like Kora, Coinbase, Tinder, LinkedIn, WordPress, and Zapier to develop and execute their SEO strategies. (1m3s)
• Schwarz is the author of "Product Led SEO" and has been analyzing how SEO changes with the rise of AI, LLMs, chatbots, and AI-generated answers in search results. (1m12s)

The impact of AI on SEO strategies (2m10s)

• Google launched Search Generative Experience (SGE), later renamed AI Overviews, in response to the popularity of AI chatbots like ChatGPT. (6m51s)
• AI Overviews, essentially ChatGPT integrated into search results, faced initial challenges including monetization difficulties, liability concerns, and plagiarism issues. (8m50s)
• Despite a limited initial rollout and some setbacks, Google has expanded the availability of AI Overviews, making it accessible to more users and in more regions. (11m11s)

Understanding search intent (11m34s)

• Search engine results pages (SERPs) are changing with the introduction of AI-generated answers, potentially pushing down traditional organic results. (11m48s)
• AI-powered search engines have the potential to provide comprehensive overview-type responses, particularly for top-of-the-funnel queries. (13m16s)
• The initial discovery phase of search might be dominated by AI, providing users with a starting point, after which they would refine their search using traditional search engines for more in-depth information. (14m40s)

Real-world impact and structured vs. unstructured data (15m30s)

• Google is now using unstructured data to provide users with direct answers to their questions, potentially impacting websites that rely on providing general information. (17m58s)
• Websites that offer unique value propositions or cater to specific user needs in the search journey are less likely to be negatively affected by Google's use of AI overviews. (18m1s)
• Google's shift from relying solely on structured data to incorporating unstructured data is disrupting traditional SEO strategies that focused on content length and link building. (19m42s)

Top-of-funnel vs mid-funnel SEO strategies (20m19s)

• Websites that provide lists of software and tools, such as G2, Gartner, and Capterra, are likely to be significantly affected by changes in search engine optimization (SEO). (20m57s)
• In the past, SEO primarily focused on top-of-the-funnel content, aiming to rank highly for broad search terms, even if those rankings didn't lead to conversions. (22m10s)
• With the advancements in AI and large language models (LLMs), Google is now able to provide more direct answers to users' queries, potentially reducing the need for users to click on multiple search results. (22m52s)

Case studies (22m57s)

• Software as a Service (SaaS) companies often create products without considering SEO, leading to marketing challenges in aligning the product with search results. (24m2s)
• Zapier's SEO success involved understanding that users needed to connect different tools and showcasing how Zapier could bridge that gap, such as connecting Gmail and Salesforce. (26m54s)
• Tinder's SEO strategy focused on addressing the problem of loneliness in new cities by creating local pages that positioned Tinder as a solution for meeting new people. (30m2s)

Steps for getting started with SEO (31m29s)

• The first step in SEO is to understand the user and their needs. This involves understanding the user's perspective and what they would search for on Google. (31m56s)
• The second step is to determine the type of asset to create for the target audience. This involves considering factors such as the global reach of the asset and whether it should be programmatic or editorial. (33m30s)
• The third step is to build a product for the SEO user. This involves considering the design, engineering, and user research aspects of the product. (34m10s)

Examples of when not to focus on SEO (35m20s)

• Software as a Service (SaaS) may not be the best fit for Search Engine Optimization (SEO) because the customer journey often doesn't begin with a search for a solution. (36m41s)
• People may not use search engines to find solutions for problems they are unaware of, making SEO less effective for products that address such problems. (37m4s)
• SaaS products, particularly those requiring significant investment or involving multiple stakeholders, often involve a sales process that extends beyond a simple SEO journey. (39m11s)

Evaluating SEO investment (39m17s)

• SEO is not free and requires time, resources, and direct expenses. (39m28s)
• When evaluating SEO investment, consider the potential return on investment (ROI) compared to other marketing channels like brand ads, influencer campaigns, or paid marketing. (41m21s)
• If your business relies heavily on sales and offline conversions, SEO may not be the most effective use of resources. (43m40s)

Understanding the tradeoffs in marketing channels (44m0s)

• There are four core growth engines: SEO, paid advertising, virality, and sales. (44m1s)
• Early-stage companies with limited resources may find SEO less beneficial than other growth engines. (44m18s)
• Some businesses, like restaurants, may not benefit from having a website, let alone investing in SEO, as their target audience primarily uses platforms like Google Maps and delivery apps. (45m11s)

SEO conversion metrics and expectations (46m23s)

• The time it takes to see results from SEO depends on the company size and brand recognition. Larger, well-known companies may see results faster due to existing authority. (47m21s)
• Conversion metrics should align with business goals and target audience. For example, media companies may focus on page views and clicks, while SaaS companies should prioritize qualified leads. (48m19s)
• Tracking irrelevant metrics, such as traffic without conversions, is not beneficial. Instead, focus on metrics that directly impact business objectives, such as leads, conversions, or social shares. (51m44s)

Understanding the time horizon of SEO (52m9s)

• SEO efforts should be treated like product development, with clear milestones and timelines to track progress and determine effectiveness. (52m28s)
• Successful SEO strategies often involve understanding user needs and creating content that directly addresses those needs, such as providing answers to questions or offering valuable templates. (53m56s)
• SEO content should align with a company's product and monetization strategy, ensuring that increased traffic translates into meaningful business outcomes. (56m6s)

The role of AI in content creation (59m37s)

• AI can be used as a tool to create content, but it is not a solution in itself. (59m51s)
• AI content can be beneficial for tasks such as writing product descriptions for e-commerce websites, where the focus is on the product itself rather than extensive content. (1h0m53s)
• While AI can assist in content creation, it is important to prioritize content quality and usefulness for users, as the volume of online content continues to grow rapidly. (1h4m36s)

AI overviews (1h5m26s)

• AI overviews are primarily a branding opportunity for companies. (1h5m44s)
• Google includes links within AI overviews, potentially for liability protection, but many users still click on these links, indicating that AI overviews may duplicate search results. (1h5m57s)
• Appearing in an AI overview as a brand suggests successful branding efforts, while appearing as a link might mean Google is using your content without driving traffic to your site. (1h7m2s)

Brand building and SEO (1h7m40s)

• The most effective way to build links is to build a strong brand that people naturally want to mention and link to. (1h8m31s)
• Creating high-quality content that is relevant to your product and resonates with your target audience will lead to organic mentions and links, which are more valuable than paid or low-quality links. (1h8m40s)
• SEO efforts should be integrated with brand building, focusing on promoting the brand as a whole rather than treating SEO as a separate entity with unrelated content and links. (1h9m23s)

Programmatic vs. editorial SEO strategies (1h9m51s)

• Programmatic SEO involves using data sources to automatically generate pages, as exemplified by TripAdvisor's use of hotel and city data combined with user-generated content, and Zillow's aggregation of property data, photos, and neighborhood information. (1h10m22s)
• Editorial SEO, in contrast, would involve manually creating content for each page, such as writing individual articles for every hotel on TripAdvisor or property on Zillow, which is often cost-prohibitive and may not align with user needs. (1h12m36s)
• The choice between programmatic and editorial SEO depends on the user's search intent and whether a programmatic approach can effectively address it, considering factors like scale, user needs, and the existence of competing solutions. (1h13m5s)

Insights from the Google antitrust verdict (1h16m6s)

• Google holds a 98% market share of mobile searches. (1h17m55s)
• Google's success is largely attributed to its default partnerships, such as those with Apple and Chrome. (1h18m51s)
• Bing offered its search engine to Apple for free, but Apple declined, demonstrating the strength of Google's market position. (1h19m42s)

Google’s dominance in search (1h20m36s)

• Google's press release following the court's decision emphasized their position as the leading search engine and their intention to defend it. (1h21m1s)
• The court acknowledged Google's dominance in search, attributing it to their extensive data accumulation and performance over 25 years. (1h21m17s)
• Despite efforts to promote DuckDuckGo, including significant investments and brand partnerships, their market share has only increased from 1% to 2% over the past 12 years, highlighting the challenge of competing with Google. (1h23m40s)

The future of SEO and user choice (1h23m52s)

• Home assistants have not been widely adopted because they limit user choice by providing only one answer from a single source. (1h24m20s)
• Search engine optimization (SEO) will persist because users will always seek information independently and require diverse choices, leading them to explore multiple search result pages. (1h24m32s)
• While AI-driven search may reduce overall search volume, the fundamental need for users to take action and engage with businesses remains unchanged, suggesting a potential shift in SEO strategies rather than its demise. (1h25m36s)

SEO myths debunked (1h26m28s)

• The biggest myth about SEO is that all companies need to engage in it. SEO should be approached like any other marketing channel, considering if it fits into the user journey and if it's the right strategy for the company. (1h26m55s)
• Another myth is that link building is the same as brand building. Link building should be about creating a relationship between the content that is linking to your site and the product or service you are trying to promote. Simply getting any HTML link will not equal SEO success. (1h27m31s)
• A pervasive myth is that Google's algorithms are a black box impossible to understand. While there are nuances to rankings, the basics of SEO are straightforward: build a crawlable website, link to pages within the site, and create helpful content that users want to read. (1h28m2s)

Forecasting SEO success (1h36m58s)

• Keyword research tools often provide inaccurate search volume data, sometimes overestimating or underestimating by a factor of 10. (1h42m28s)
• These tools use proprietary algorithms and estimations because even Google doesn't have access to completely accurate search volume data. (1h41m34s)
• While keyword research tools can be useful for understanding user search behavior and comparing the popularity of different keywords, they should not be solely relied upon for accurate SEO forecasting. (1h43m7s)

The need for SEO expertise (1h44m18s)

• The demand for SEO expertise is expected to increase significantly as companies shift their focus from rankings and traffic to strategies that align with their bottom line. (1h44m35s)
• Aspiring SEO consultants should prioritize developing strong communication, sales, and proposal writing skills, as these are crucial for success in a client-facing role. (1h45m39s)
• It is recommended to gain experience and build a client base while working a full-time job before transitioning into a full-time consulting role. (1h45m56s)

Lightning round and closing thoughts (1h46m26s)

• Three recommended books are Small Data by Martin Lindstrom, Start With Why by Simon Sinek, and Million Dollar Consultant (author not mentioned). (1h46m42s)
• A recent movie watched and enjoyed was Blackberry, which tells the story of the rise and fall of the Blackberry phone. (1h48m28s)
• A motto often used is to "think big and think long", encouraging a focus on the bigger picture and long-term goals. (1h51m47s)