Building Wiz: the fastest-growing startup in history | Raaz Herzberg (CMO and VP Product Strategy)

Raaz’s background (0s)

• Raaz Herzberg was one of the first 10 employees at Wiz, joining as the first product manager when the founders didn't have a solid idea figured out yet (1s).
• Six weeks after joining, the company pivoted, and Raaz participated in 10 to 15 meetings daily with potential customers to understand what to build (16s).
• Initially, Raaz didn't understand what the company was going to build, which led to asking questions that eventually pivoted the company towards Cloud security (31s).
• As the company started to gain traction, the type of questions in customer calls changed, shifting from general inquiries to pricing and purchasing discussions (43s).
• Raaz started as an engineer, moved into product, and then marketing, which is not a traditional career path, requiring her to learn a lot about marketing (57s).
• Before joining Wiz, Raaz led security products at Microsoft, including Azure Sentinel, and held the role of VP of Product before becoming Chief Marketing Officer and VP of Product Strategy at Wiz (1m22s).
• Wiz is the world's fastest-growing security company and the fastest-growing software company in history, hitting $100 million ARR just 18 months after founding (1m37s).

Early challenges and Wiz’s essential pivot (2m54s)

• Wiz is a software company that launched just under 5 years ago and achieved 100 million ARR within 18 months, making it the fastest-growing software company in history, surpassing companies like Deal and Ramp. (3m4s)
• Wiz's growth rate is faster than any other software company, and it is reported to be at over 500 million ARR now, although this is not confirmed. (3m26s)
• A company that rhymes with "Lugal" offered to buy Wiz for $23 billion, but the offer was turned down, and Wiz decided to stay private. (3m34s)
• Around 50% of Fortune 100 companies are customers of Wiz. (3m43s)
• When Raaz Herzberg joined Wiz, the company had around 7 employees, including the founders. (4m2s)

Finding product-market fit (6m41s)

• Wiz was founded by a team with a background in building Cloud security products, but initially, they wanted to focus on network security, with the company officially founded as Beyond Networks (7m34s).
• The founding team, including the CEO Asaf, who previously led the division of Microsoft cloud security products, would present their idea to potential customers, but the responses were often superficial, with customers saying the idea sounded interesting without showing deep enthusiasm (9m16s).
• As the first product manager, Raaz Herzberg joined calls with potential customers and realized that despite the positive responses, he didn't understand what the company was going to build, which led to a deeper discussion about the company's direction (9m45s).
• Herzberg's confusion and decision to ask for clarification led to a discussion about the company's approach and the realization that they were looking for positive reinforcements rather than listening intently to signs of deep enthusiasm from customers (11m13s).
• This realization ultimately led to a pivot, with the company shifting its focus from network security to Cloud security (11m28s).
• The company's early days involved talking to 10-15 potential customers daily, with the founding team presenting their idea and gathering feedback, but not really having a solid product yet (8m22s).
• The team's technical background and the CEO's experience in leading Microsoft cloud security products contributed to the company's ability to present a compelling idea, but also led to a lack of clarity about what they were building (8m52s).
• The pivot to Cloud security marked a significant turning point for the company, which eventually became Wiz and achieved rapid growth (11m28s).

Lessons from early customer interactions (11m31s)

• Whiz was founded in March 2020, a time when the world seemed to be closing down due to the pandemic, but this ended up being an advantage as people were at home with no meetings or travel, making it easier to conduct customer calls (11m43s).
• Conducting a large number of customer calls, around 10 to 15 calls a day, is crucial in discovering what works and what doesn't, and this approach helped Whiz find its footing (11m37s).
• People tend to be nice and provide positive feedback, especially if they think the idea is smart, but it's essential to look beyond this and focus on indications of genuine interest, such as questions about pricing, cost, and implementation (12m47s).
• A significant shift in the type of questions asked during customer calls can indicate a change from casual interest to serious consideration, such as questions about pricing, cost, and implementation (13m12s).
• Strong indications of genuine interest include questions about pricing, cost, and implementation, as well as requests to connect with other team members or discuss a proof of concept (POC) (13m28s).
• As a human being, there's a natural bias to look for affirmation, but it's essential to be aware of this bias and focus on looking for what you don't want to hear, such as negative feedback or concerns (13m46s).
• In B2B sales, it's crucial to get connected with the actual team that will test and deploy the tool, and there needs to be real passion about doing something, rather than just casual interest (14m37s).
• Real passion about a product or service is characterized by a desire to take action, such as implementing a POC or connecting with other team members, rather than just providing positive feedback (14m51s).

The power in speaking up when you don’t understand something (14m54s)

• A person was unsure about the direction of the company and felt like they didn't understand what was being built, which turned out to be a shared feeling among others, as nobody fully understood what was going on (15m2s).
• The person considered quitting due to feeling like they weren't the right fit for the role because of their lack of understanding, but ultimately decided to speak up (15m10s).
• Speaking up and saying "I don't understand" can be difficult and requires courage, but it's a valuable question that can lead to important discussions and a deeper understanding of the topic (15m49s).
• Building a company with the right culture can make it easier for people to say "I don't understand" without feeling ashamed, and it's essential to have a culture that encourages open communication and vulnerability (16m9s).
• The founding team of Wiz had a flat organizational structure, where everyone's voice was heard, and seniority wasn't a factor, which allowed for open discussions and the ability to say "I don't understand" (16m24s).
• The ability to say "I don't understand" is a learned quality that requires vulnerability and openness, and it's essential to create an environment where people feel comfortable asking questions and seeking clarification (16m54s).
• The phrase "We may be wrong, but we're not confused" by Toor Cohen, LinkedIn's CPO, resonates with the idea that it's okay to not understand something, and it's essential to take the time to clarify and understand complex topics (17m23s).
• If something is not easy to understand, it may need more discussion and clarification, and asking questions is an essential part of the learning process (17m36s).

How Wiz pivoted from their initial idea (17m46s)

• The company experienced a significant shift after switching from their initial direction to Cloud security, which is the founders' area of expertise, and where they felt the problems were substantial and pressing (17m59s).
• This change led to a notable difference in the team's atmosphere, with a sense of ease and clarity in distinguishing the right path from the wrong one (18m47s).
• The company started receiving strong signals from customers, which pushed them forward and helped them move quickly (18m59s).
• One key learning from this phase was the importance of getting a customer's commitment before proceeding with a proof of value (POV), especially when the product is still in its early stages (20m14s).
• To gauge this commitment, the company sent a list of technical questions to a potential customer, which initially seemed counterintuitive but ultimately proved effective in ensuring the customer's dedication to the POV (20m2s).
• This approach allowed the company to assess the customer's willingness to work together and invest time and effort into the POV, rather than pushing them into something they might not be fully committed to (20m26s).
• The experience highlighted the value of seeking "pull" from customers, rather than pushing them too hard, and being willing to ask for their commitment and investment in the process (20m57s).
• The company's approach to seeking customer commitment was exemplified by a potential customer's willingness to fill out a complicated questionnaire the next day, demonstrating their strong interest in the product (21m6s).
• Founders of Wiz initially handled sales themselves, closing contracts and learning from the process, before hiring their first salesperson, which gave them valuable experience and confidence (21m14s).
• This approach allowed them to learn and adapt quickly, as they were behind in terms of having a sales team, but still managed to close deals and grow the business (21m28s).
• The founders learned that hiring someone to solve a problem that they couldn't do themselves often doesn't work, and it's better to figure it out themselves first (22m50s).
• This approach is similar to the idea that if early customers aren't passionate about a product, later customers won't have a good experience, and that the most passionate customers come early (23m26s).
• The founding team of Wiz handled sales themselves until they reached a couple of million in revenue, before hiring their first salesperson (23m36s).
• This experience taught them that it's often better for founders to figure out sales and other challenges themselves, rather than relying on hiring someone to solve the problem (23m48s).

Marketing and leadership insights (23m52s)

• Raaz Herzberg's current role is CMO and VP of Product Strategy at Wiz, a position he took on after starting as an engineer and moving into product, which is not a traditional path for product people (23m53s).
• The decision to move into marketing was not part of a planned career progression, but rather a result of following good people and taking on new challenges (24m25s).
• Raaz joined Wiz two and a half years after its founding, at a time when the company had already achieved product-market fit and had a functioning sales team, but was struggling with marketing and awareness (24m40s).
• The company's CEO, Assaf, asked Raaz to take on the marketing role, which he initially thought was a bizarre idea due to his lack of marketing experience (25m35s).
• Raaz spent a weekend learning about marketing and talking to CMOs before deciding to give it a try, and was convinced by the importance of brand in scaling the company (26m36s).
• He believes that finding product-market fit and building a sales organization are major blocks for a company, and that figuring out marketing is crucial for scaling (27m12s).
• Raaz thinks that brand matters a lot, even in B2B products, and that people buy products because of the brand, not just the features or specs (27m45s).

Following the “heat” in your organization (28m5s)

• In the early days of Wiz, the "heat" was in the product kitchen, where everyone was waiting for something to start working on, and people wanted to begin doing something right (28m24s).
• As the company grew, the heat shifted to the engineering side, where the focus was on building and making the product work (28m38s).
• After closing a few deals and having the first clients, the heat moved to sales, as the focus was on selling the product (28m49s).
• Once the product had market fit and salespeople could sell it, the heat shifted to marketing, where the focus was on generating more pipeline and making people aware of Wiz (29m0s).
• Following the heat in the organization means putting the best people in the places that need the most help, and this approach can be beneficial for growth (29m20s).
• Cloudinary is a foundational technology for images and videos on the internet, trusted by over two million developers and many leading brands, and it can help automate post-production work at scale (29m31s).

How Raaz found success as CMO (30m22s)

• Shardul Shah, a partner at Index Ventures, shared that when Raaz presented the marketing plan at the first Wiz board meeting, Shah offered to introduce Raaz to his marketing leaders, but instead, he decided to introduce his marketing leaders to Raaz, believing they could learn from him (30m24s).
• Raaz recalls the meeting as their first board meeting ever, which was also their first time taking the CMO role, making the experience stressful (30m59s).
• At the time, Raaz had only been in the CMO role for two months and was still learning about marketing, but had a deep understanding of the problem Wiz solved and their target audience (31m45s).
• Raaz's approach to marketing was untraditional, as they came from a security and cloud security background, and focused on making noise to increase awareness about Wiz (31m56s).
• Raaz's strategy was to focus on the end goal of getting the right people to hear about Wiz as quickly as possible, rather than following traditional marketing approaches (33m44s).
• Despite having no prior marketing experience, Raaz learned from their team and other marketers, and was able to make changes and see results within a short period (33m27s).
• Raaz believes that Shardul Shah's comment was kind, but also acknowledges that their untraditional approach to marketing may have been seen as valuable by others (33m16s).

Common CMO mistakes (34m1s)

• The CMO role is considered very hard and requires a lot of trust and a deep connection to the founding team, as everything done in marketing is very visible and represents the company to the world (34m16s).
• Building trust is difficult, and it can be broken easily with one bad ad or misrepresentation of the company's message, which can lead to a loss of trust with the founding team (34m48s).
• It's challenging for someone without a background in the company's specific industry or market to be successful as a CMO, as it requires a deep understanding of the customers, product, and market (35m8s).
• The CMO role requires a deep connection to the product, market, and founding team, which can be difficult to establish when coming from outside the company (35m26s).
• The CMO role is also very diverse, requiring management of different teams, such as performance marketing, designers, brand, events, and field teams, which can be challenging due to the lack of correlation between these areas (36m4s).
• A marketing leader must have a broad range of skills and knowledge to manage these different teams effectively, making it a very challenging and interesting role (36m19s).

Creating noise and standing out (36m23s)

• To create noise and get the Wiz name out, unconventional marketing strategies were employed, which might inspire others to try similar approaches (36m25s).
• As a product manager, it's essential to think carefully about every feature added to a product, considering the valuable resource of engineering time and the potential long-term complications (36m47s).
• In contrast, marketing has no significant costs or maintenance, allowing for experimentation and trying new things without long-term consequences (37m39s).
• Before RSA, a major security conference, a decision was made to create a unique and attention-grabbing booth, scrapping the traditional cyber booth design (38m11s).
• The Wiz booth was transformed into a Wizard of Oz-themed booth, complete with actors and decorations, standing out from the typical red and black cyber security booths (38m52s).
• The goal was to make people notice and wonder what Wiz was, as they had never heard of the company before (38m41s).
• The unconventional approach to the booth and branding paid off, with five times the number of people stopping by the booth compared to the previous year (40m4s).
• The success of the themed booth led to Wiz continuing to use this approach, and other cyber companies have since followed suit (40m18s).
• The rebranding of Wiz focused on creating a positive and optimistic brand image, using bright colors and a magical theme to stand out in the industry (39m21s).

Embracing failure and taking risks (40m28s)

• Embracing failure is a core part of one's mindset, allowing them to try new things and be okay if they don't work out, which is evident in the stories shared about trying stuff and being okay with failure (40m40s).
• This mindset is not about being more confident than oneself, but rather being okay with being pretty sure of failing at something and still attempting it, which has been a growing aspect of one's personality (41m17s).
• When taking the job at Wiz, there was a certainty that it wouldn't work out, but the decision was made to take it anyway, and this mindset has been applied to other roles, including the product manager position, despite lacking experience (41m30s).
• Over time, this mindset releases one from the fear of failure, making it easier to move forward and give oneself the opportunity to fail, which is empowering (42m5s).
• The ability to be okay with failure and lean into things that might not work out is not natural for many people, but it can be developed, and in this case, it was influenced by one's childhood and upbringing (42m25s).
• One's mom played a significant role in instilling this mindset by pushing them to try new things, even if they were not naturally inclined towards them, and emphasizing the importance of hard work and friction in learning and growth (42m43s).
• The idea that friction is good is rooted in the concept that if you're already good at something, it's not where you should invest your energy, and that hard work and courage are more important than talent in achieving success (43m47s).
• This mindset is reflected in the approach to creating hurdles for potential prospects and looking for enthusiasm in the face of challenges, such as filling out long surveys (44m16s).
• The presence of friction is an indicator that someone is putting in extra effort, making it a desirable trait, and this idea is applied to various aspects of life, including relationships and decision-making (44m49s).

The importance of clear communication (44m53s)

• As a product leader, it's crucial to understand the importance of marketing and product marketing, which can be a multiplier in bridging the gap between the product and the market, especially when scaling the message (45m15s).
• When working on the product side, it's easy to work with unclear or blurry messages, but when scaling, the message needs to be crystal clear, black and white, to avoid getting lost in translation (46m18s).
• As an organization scales, clear communication becomes even more critical, and product marketing plays a vital role in amplifying the message, but if the signals are gray or fuzzy, it won't work (46m43s).
• Understanding the go-to-market perspective, user perspective, and seller perspective is essential for product leaders to deliver clear messages about the product (47m0s).
• Product leaders often use technical terms and initials that may not be understood by the market, and it's essential to simplify the language to connect with the buyer (47m40s).
• An example of this is using the term "cspm" for cloud security posture management, which may not be understood by the market, whereas people are more likely to search for "cloud security solution" (47m42s).
• Living inside a technically complex domain can make product leaders remote from the buyer, and it's essential to see things from the marketing side to understand the buyer's perspective (48m19s).

The “dummy” explanation (48m32s)

• The "dummy" explanation refers to the practice of keeping things simple and understandable for anyone, avoiding complex terminology and assumptions about prior knowledge of Wiz or its products (48m33s).
• This approach is essential in marketing and writing, as it acknowledges that customers are not experts in cloud security and do not live in the same "bubble" as the Wiz team (49m0s).
• The goal is to avoid using technical jargon or assuming that readers are familiar with Wiz-specific terms, such as the "Wiz graph database" (49m32s).
• To practice this approach, it's crucial to constantly remind oneself of the "bubble" and consider the audience's perspective, recognizing that customers are not as familiar with Wiz as the team is (50m17s).
• This involves being mindful of the language used and avoiding complex terminology, instead opting for simple and straightforward explanations (49m50s).
• It's also important to remember that customers are often just learning about Wiz and its products, and that the team's familiarity with the brand can create a distorted view of what is clear and understandable to outsiders (50m31s).
• To overcome this, it's essential to maintain a daily awareness of the "bubble" and make a conscious effort to communicate in a way that is accessible to everyone (50m50s).

Building trust and company culture (51m0s)

• Wiz has four co-founders who have a unique story, having founded their second company together after selling their first company, Adallom, to Microsoft, and having worked together in the Israeli army for around 20-22 years, resulting in complete trust and a clear understanding of each member's domain (51m37s).
• The co-founders have a very open culture, allowing employees to impact strategy and have a seat at the table without having to work hard for it, and they believe in giving everybody a chance to have an impact regardless of title or experience (52m34s).
• This open culture and trust in employees lead to a healthy culture with a lot of loyalty, as employees are given opportunities and chances, making them feel part of what's being built (53m22s).
• The company's culture is defined by the co-founders' ability to trust employees and give them a chance to try, which also causes employees to have a lot of loyalty (52m32s).
• Wiz currently has around 1,500 employees, providing a sense of the company's size for those who might be interested in joining (53m38s).

Contrarian corner (53m45s)

• A contrarian opinion is that instead of trying to build confidence to overcome imposter syndrome, it's more effective to just acknowledge and accept it, as many people feel that way, and not let it stop you from making decisions or taking opportunities (54m7s).
• Embracing imposter syndrome means recognizing that it's normal to feel that way, especially in new roles or situations, and that it's okay to not know everything, as it's a natural part of growth and learning (54m41s).
• The best advice is to ignore imposter syndrome and focus on taking opportunities, as you will never know your limit if you don't try, and it's better to give yourself the chance to succeed or fail rather than holding back due to self-doubt (55m15s).
• Raaz believes that Wiz is doing something special and is in a unique place of hyperscaling while maintaining an authentic and flat culture, and that there are interesting opportunities across every domain (55m49s).
• Wiz is always hiring for great people who want to make an impact, and while they are hiring across all areas, they are open to talking to passionate people who don't find the right role, as there are many things for them to do (56m7s).

Lightning round (56m34s)

• Raaz Herzberg recommends the book "Setting the Table" by Danny Meyer, which provides a unique business perspective from the restaurant industry with applicable lessons on customer connection and management, and is an inspiring read despite being from a different domain (56m56s).
• Another recommended book is "No Rules Rules" by Reed Hastings, the co-founder of Netflix, which talks about the company's unique culture and story, including its pivot from a tech company to a production studio, and is a super interesting read for anyone thinking about putting a strong culture in place (57m56s).
• To ramp up in the marketing world, Raaz Herzberg focused on identifying companies that do things well, such as Gong, and obsessing over what they do, their team's actions, and the people behind them, rather than reading marketing books or listening to podcasts (58m50s).
• Gong is mentioned as a company that does an amazing job in marketing for a B2B product, and Raaz Herzberg would look up talks given by their CMO to learn from them (59m12s).
• Raaz Herzberg does not like the way most security companies market things, often using fear and frightening tactics, and instead prefers to look at brands they love and backtrack from there (59m35s).
• Raaz Herzberg's favorite TV show is "The Wire", which they think is the best show ever created, but they hardly watch anything else (1h0m1s).
• The person has a favorite product they recently discovered, a notebook pen holder, which is a small magnetic clip that attaches to a notebook and holds a pen, and can be found by searching for "notebook pen holder" online (1h0m57s).
• They have a favorite life motto, "keeping it simple," which they believe is helpful in work and life, as complexity can often be a sign that something is not the right solution (1h1m27s).
• The motto is applicable to product design and life in general, and reminds them of the story of trying to sell the initial version of Wiz, which was too complicated and didn't work (1h2m6s).
• Wiz has received many acquisition offers over the years, but the founding team, employees, customers, and board believe that staying on an independent path is the best way for the company to become one of the biggest security companies in the world (1h2m56s).
• Wiz addresses the growing market of cloud security, which is a fast-growing market with 20-30% year-over-year growth, and the company has experienced unconventional growth (1h3m10s).
• Only 15-20% of infrastructure is currently in the cloud, despite the common perception that everything is in the cloud, making it a fast-growing market (1h3m25s).
• The security market is often led by a single leader, and companies prefer to buy security solutions from the best in the domain (1h3m38s).
• Wiz is considered a leader in the cloud security space and is seen as the cloud security company in many ways (1h3m49s).
• Marketing and brand are crucial for Wiz, as the company is still growing and has a lot of work ahead to maintain its position (1h3m54s).
• Wiz is hiring, and the company is looking for people who are learners and a good fit for the company culture (1h4m22s).
• Raaz Herzberg can be found on LinkedIn, and listeners can reach out to him through the platform (1h4m35s).
• Listeners can be useful to Raaz Herzberg by applying to work at Wiz, as the company is looking for great people who are learners (1h4m41s).