Get ready to meet your AI best friend | The Vergecast

Intro (0s)

• The hosts of the podcast, including Nei and Alex, discuss various topics, including their personal preferences for clothing, with Nei mentioning that he wore the same jacket as the previous week, and David Pierce sharing that he used to wear gray t-shirts on every episode of the podcast (5s).
• The podcast is mentioned to be the flagship podcast of the Vergecast, with the hosts joking about their GameCube being in the studio and other podcasts being sponsored by Heineken (1m10s).
• The hosts discuss the various topics they will be covering in the episode, including AI announcements, funding deals, and a lightning round, which remains unsponsored (1m38s).
• Alex jokes about sneaky ad reads and invites listeners to venmo him directly (2m7s).
• David Pierce has a question for the hosts, which he writes in bold letters, and it is revealed that he has bought a new blue iPhone 16 and wants to know how to feel about it, as he has gone from a pro to a regular iPhone, a trend that is apparently popular among some users (2m30s).
• David mentions that he chose the regular iPhone 16 because it is lighter and he likes the blue color, and that he is not alone in downgrading from a pro to a regular iPhone, citing Michael Fer, also known as Mr. Mobile, as an example (3m21s).
• The overwhelming response from people regarding the loss of promotion is one of shock and concern, with many questioning how one can live without it and how they can survive with lower refresh rates (3m26s).
• However, it's noted that 90% of people won't notice the difference in refresh rates, and it's only the display nerds who are sensitive to these changes (4m15s).
• The difference in refresh rates becomes less noticeable once it hits 30, but some people can still see the difference and are sensitive to motion artifacts like screen tearing and the jelly effect (4m20s).
• The jelly effect is a phenomenon where the screen controller refreshes one side of the screen faster than the other, causing a warping effect when scrolling, but 99% of people can't see it (5m11s).
• Promotion minimizes motion artifacts, making it beneficial for those who are sensitive to these issues, but for most people, it's not a significant concern (6m23s).
• The difference between devices with 120Hz and 60Hz refresh rates can be noticeable when scrolling, but not when playing video, and it ultimately comes down to personal preference and sensitivity (5m41s).
• The cost of devices with higher refresh rates is compared to the difference between owning a Toyota and a Lexus, with the cheaper option being sufficient for most people (6m41s).
• Developing a taste for high-end products, such as good wine, can lead to financial difficulties, as it may become hard to settle for lower-end alternatives once accustomed to the better quality (7m15s).
• Some people can see the difference in display specs, such as motion smoothing, while others cannot, and it's not something that can be taught (8m6s).
• The refresh rate of a screen is either noticeable or not, and it's similar to high refresh rates on monitors, where only some people, like PC gamers, can see the difference (8m30s).
• The main camera on the iPhone Pro is substantially better than the regular iPhone, but it may not be worth the extra cost for most people (9m23s).
• Spending money on a good camera is a better investment than relying on a smartphone camera, and the regular iPhone is a good compromise (9m30s).
• The trend in technology is convergence to the phone, but some people, like David, are moving towards divergence with multiple gadgets, which may lead to a utility belt or a "dad" bag full of gadgets (10m4s).
• Variable refresh rate fanboys are appreciated, and their enthusiasm is valid, even if not everyone can see the difference (10m31s).
• A discussion was held about the features people cannot live without in a device, with the camera, extra screen size, and bigger battery being mentioned as key features. (10m39s)
• The results of a promotion showed that the feature people said they couldn't live without was not explicitly stated, but it was surprising to one of the participants. (10m42s)
• Counter-Strike players were mentioned as a group that might appreciate certain features, but it was also noted that there are people who can see the value in other features. (10m48s)
• The idea that some people can see the value in certain features more than others was discussed, with one participant stating that they believe there are more people who can see it than others think. (10m53s)

Microsoft's New Co-Pilot (11m2s)

• Microsoft has made significant announcements, including a new version of Co-Pilot, which has a different vibe and feel, shifting from a tool focused on helping with tasks like writing emails to a more comprehensive product (11m3s).
• Co-Pilot's redesign is influenced by Inflection, a company whose employees, including the CEO and COO, were hired by Microsoft, but the company itself was not acquired (11m53s).
• The new Co-Pilot product aims to be an AI assistant that can perform tasks on behalf of the user, such as booking flights and hotels, creating itineraries, and providing recommendations (13m28s).
• This concept is part of a broader trend in AI development, where companies are building products that can assist users in various tasks, with the goal of making these products more than just novelties (12m44s).
• The idea of AI assistants is not new, but the technology has advanced to the point where these products can actually accomplish tasks, rather than just providing assistance (12m49s).
• Multimodal search is another area of focus for AI development, which is expected to become more prevalent in the near future (13m51s).
• However, there are still limitations and trust issues with these AI assistants, as they may not always provide accurate or reliable results, such as recommending a hotel in a different location than desired (14m14s).
• The concept of having a computer perform tasks on behalf of a user is being explored, but it is still a brittle technology that has not been successfully implemented in the history of computers (14m32s).
• Rabbit Co is working on a project that allows a computer to perform tasks for a user, but it is essentially a VNC client to a Chrome browser in the cloud, which is also a brittle technology (15m6s).
• The challenge is to build a system that can interact with the world in a natural language and perform tasks on behalf of a user, but the current technology is not yet capable of doing so (15m39s).
• The vision for AI chatbots is that users will be able to talk to the computer and have everything happen exactly as they desire, but the middle steps to achieve this vision have not been filled in (16m7s).
• The enabling technology, such as large language models (LLMs), is still brittle when it tries to use the computer for a user, and it is unclear whether the investment in this technology is worth it (16m20s).
• Microsoft has announced a feature called generative fill for Microsoft Paint, which is a cool but potentially not worth the investment (16m41s).
• The middle step in developing AI technology is the most interesting part, as it involves building a system that can interact with the world in a natural language and perform tasks on behalf of a user (17m5s).
• The underlying technology of AI involves improving VNCs and building an API ecosystem that allows data providers to plug into each other and become more powerful over time (17m27s).
• Companies like Delta Airlines have a vested interest in making their data available to AI services, which could lead to more powerful and useful AI systems (17m49s).
• Magical AI is continuously improving, but the question remains whether relying solely on AI for tasks is the right outcome (18m3s).
• The idea of simply stating a need, such as being in San Francisco next Tuesday, and having everything magically happen is not considered the right outcome (18m7s).
• The goal is to reach a point where one trusts the AI enough to rely on it for tasks, such as traveling, without having to manually make arrangements (18m21s).
• There is a need for a user-friendly interface that presents data in a way that allows users to make choices together with the AI (18m30s).
• The AI should be able to ask questions without being annoying, and there is a limit to how much work a user should have to do when interacting with the AI (18m37s).
• The ideal interaction with AI should not require as much work as doing the task manually, such as booking a flight on kayak.com (18m42s).

AI Assistants: The Future or a Fad? (18m46s)

• Microsoft's new co-pilot app is being developed with a unique user interface (UI) that goes beyond a traditional chatbot, featuring prompts and a visually appealing design reminiscent of a meditation app (18m52s).
• The app offers various options for users to engage with, such as exploring skills to learn in a month, and provides tips for meditating, which can lead to a text-based conversation (19m35s).
• Microsoft is attempting to address the discovery problem associated with AI by abstracting away the traditional text box interface and introducing a new way of interacting with AI (20m16s).
• Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, envisions creating an AI companion for everyone, which he believes can lead to a more helpful and supportive era of technology (20m59s).
• The goal is to create a friendly AI assistant, similar to Jarvis, that is helpful but not intrusive or overly personal, with Microsoft aiming to achieve a "not horny" vibe with their AI companion (21m44s).
• Microsoft did not acquire Inflection, but instead hired its employees and provided them with equivalent equity in Microsoft stock, allowing them to work on projects like the co-pilot app (20m37s).
• The redesign of the co-pilot app is one of the first big projects at Microsoft AI, with the company exploring new ways to interact with AI and create a more user-friendly interface (20m58s).
• The concept of having a human-like AI assistant that can help with various tasks, from mental wellness to booking flights, is becoming increasingly popular, with many people wanting a calm and helpful space to interact with (22m13s).
• The wide-open text box feature of AI assistants, such as chatbots, is a powerful tool that allows users to ask questions and receive answers without needing to know how to operate the technology (22m40s).
• However, many people struggle to use chatbots effectively, unsure of what to ask or how to interact with them, highlighting the "cold start problem" of getting users to engage with the technology (24m6s).
• To overcome this, some chatbots, like ChatGPT, offer prompts and ideas to help users get started and become more comfortable with the technology (24m10s).
• Research has shown that people are willing to reveal deep personal information to chatbots, demonstrating a low bar for users to form emotional connections with these AI assistants (24m41s).
• The ability of AI models to pass the Turing test in real-life interactions has led to the question of what products can be created to leverage this technology, with the first step being to make it fun and engaging to interact with AI assistants (25m7s).
• Microsoft's co-pilot is being pushed towards more practical uses, as being fun to talk to is not how the company makes money, and they need to figure out other ways to utilize the technology (25m16s).
• The new co-pilot has a voice mode that is inherently open-ended, allowing users to talk to it without needing to prompt it, and it can interrupt and respond naturally (25m38s).
• Co-pilot Vision can perform tasks like web searches without prompting, using a text box where users can type anything (26m2s).
• The split between human-like interactions, such as talking, and computer-like interactions, such as typing, is expected to continue growing wider (26m15s).
• Interacting with computers in human-like ways, such as talking, is becoming more natural and doesn't require prompting, while typing and using mice and keyboards still feel like computer tasks that require instructions (26m27s).
• Companies are pushing towards both voice and vision interactions, with the camera becoming a natural way to interact with computers, similar to taking a picture of something (26m46s).
• Google's Gemini search with a video in lens is expected to be successful, and co-pilot's multimodal search capabilities, including voice and video search, will likely click with users (27m4s).
• The voice revolution, which was predicted in 2016, is finally happening, but it was delayed due to the lack of enabling technology, such as computers being able to understand what users are saying (27m25s).
• The enabling technology has now improved, allowing computers to understand and respond to users in a more natural way, moving beyond pre-planned routes and static algorithms (27m50s).
• Multimodal search enables users to look at and understand information, then have it explained back in natural language, which is a powerful set of enabling technologies (28m27s).
• The concept of "agentic" refers to AI acting as an agent, performing tasks on behalf of the user, but the core technologies to support this were not available until recently (28m52s).
• The idea of AI agents is not new, but the actual implementation of tasks is still unclear, with possibilities including the use of APIs or virtual clients in the cloud (29m35s).
• Allowing AI bots to set up virtual clients and click around on websites is seen as a slow, brittle, and computationally expensive solution (29m54s).
• Apple's approach with Siri is to have app developers allow Siri to access their services, and then have Siri make API calls locally on the user's phone (30m42s).
• The middle part of the AI agent process, where tasks are actually accomplished, is still up for grabs, with no clear solution or fallback (31m0s).
• Companies like Kayak, DoorDash, and Delta may struggle with AI agents, as they rely on users interacting with their interfaces to generate revenue (31m10s).
• Commoditizing services through AI agents could lead to companies like Uber and Lyft becoming just commodity providers, rather than distinct companies (31m51s).
• The rise of AI services may lead to the commoditization of various businesses, making them "dumb pipes" that people interact with, but this could also lead to a reality where companies struggle to maintain their value as they become interchangeable with AI services (32m5s).
• Some companies are trying to create AI companions that can assist with basic tasks, such as math, and provide step-by-step answers to complex questions, but this raises questions about whether people are culturally prepared to form friendships with AI entities (32m38s).
• The new co-pilot feature, which includes OpenAI's 01 model and a "think deeper" feature, allows users to ask complex questions and receive detailed answers, but this also raises concerns about the potential for people to form emotional bonds with computers (33m10s).
• The idea of forming friendships with AI entities is problematic, as computers lack souls, the ability to reason, and emotional intelligence, making them fundamentally different from human friends (33m33s).
• Despite these concerns, people may still form emotional bonds with AI entities, as they tend to enjoy talking to computers and sharing their thoughts and feelings with them, which could lead to a shift in cultural attitudes towards human-computer interaction (33m45s).
• Currently, cultural norms view people who talk to computers repeatedly as lonely or isolated, as depicted in TV shows and films, but this perception may change as AI companions become more prevalent (34m0s).
• The idea of a person having a conversation with a computer, such as Alexa, is often used to portray loneliness or sadness in media, but this trope may become less relevant as AI companions become more accepted (34m10s).
• The concept of AI companions raises questions about the potential for people to form meaningful relationships with computers, and whether this is a desirable or healthy development (34m23s).

AI as a Social Companion (34m57s)

• The idea of having a computer help with big life decisions in a low-stakes way is being considered, but it's unclear if this makes a person better at talking to other people (34m58s).
• Some people practice having social interactions with robots, which may or may not translate to confidence in interacting with other humans (35m11s).
• There's a moral crisis surrounding people forming relationships with AI instead of humans, with examples including women in Asia dating AI men (35m37s).
• Suan describes a dynamic, emergent, and evolving interaction with a computer that can accompany users to appointments, help with planning, and provide support with life decisions (36m12s).
• This vision of a computer friend raises questions about its capabilities, such as planning a child's birthday party, which requires solving technical, legal, and business problems (36m18s).
• Technical companies like Microsoft may have the resources to address these problems, but it's unclear if they have the answers (36m55s).
• The tech industry's attitude towards AI has shifted, with Google previously firing an employee for suggesting AI was human-like, but now embracing this idea as a feature (37m27s).
• The use of children in AI marketing is seen as a bad idea, creating a dystopian image and sparking controversy (37m58s).
• Parents of young children are already engaged in a highly controversial discussion, and involving AI in this context may exacerbate the issue (38m22s).
• The idea of having AI assistants attend meetings on one's behalf is discussed, with the possibility of using AI notetakers to free up time for personal activities, such as planning a child's birthday party (38m30s).
• The use of AI in a professional setting raises concerns about what is considered acceptable in a company, and the potential for AI to replace human presence in meetings (38m45s).
• Eric Yuan, the CEO of Zoom, has stated that future meetings may involve AI avatars talking to each other, potentially with thousands of AI avatars attending meetings (39m16s).
• A screenshot was shared on Threads, allegedly showing a Google Meet with multiple attendees who had sent their AI notetakers to the meeting instead of attending themselves (39m28s).
• The concept of AI attending meetings is compared to a scene from the movie Real Genius, where students use boomboxes to record a lecture, and the professor later plays the lecture back from the boombox (39m35s).
• The movie Real Genius is referenced as a favorite and an influence on one's personality, with a suggestion to watch the movie to understand this perspective (39m53s).

OpenAI's Ambitions (40m7s)

• Open AI has raised $6.6 billion to build a more advanced AI, which seems like a relatively small investment considering the potential impact (40m7s).
• There are now more founders of Open AI working at Anthropic than at Open AI, which is a notable statistic (40m20s).
• Microsoft is pulling away from Open AI, and its investment in the company is seen as a way to gain access to computing power (40m30s).
• Nvidia is investing in Open AI because it will likely get its money back through the use of its technology in Open AI's systems (40m48s).
• Thrive has invested heavily in Open AI, pinning its success on its relationship with the company's founders and Sam Altman (40m54s).
• Open AI's investors have been asked not to invest in competing companies, which is an unusual request (41m32s).
• SoftBank is also an investor in Open AI, which may not be ideal due to its reputation (41m54s).
• Open AI's success hinges on its ability to transition from a research and engineering company to a products company, which is a significant challenge (42m17s).
• The company currently has only one product, ChatPT, and needs to make significant engineering advancements to achieve its goals (42m22s).
• There is debate about whether Open AI's technology is good enough to achieve its goals, or if significant advancements are still needed (42m46s).
• Open AI's pitch for its value is based on its ability to train even larger models, which it believes will lead to significant breakthroughs (43m17s).
• A model with a large amount of data is being developed, but the developers are running out of data, so they plan to create synthetic data to continue training the model, which will be powered by a massive data center in Saudi Arabia (43m24s).
• Sam Altman's idea to build 36 more chip fabs to make chips for his project is considered a big bet and has been referred to as a "podcast bro" idea by people at TSMC (43m43s).
• While Altman is working on building the world's largest data center to train the world's largest model, others are focusing on building products, which may be a more practical approach (44m3s).
• There is a concern that the AI industry is a bubble that is about to pop, as many projects are built on dreams and ambition rather than actual products or results (44m24s).
• Shareholders are expected to become impatient if they do not see tangible results, such as the creation of a highly advanced AI system, within the next five years (44m36s).
• The pressure to deliver results within a short timeframe is a characteristic of technology capitalism, where investors expect rapid progress and returns on their investments (44m51s).

Gadget Round (45m17s)

• Shopify is an all-in-one digital commerce platform that can help businesses sell better and convert browsers into buyers, with features like Shop Pay that can convert more customers and end abandoned shopping carts for good (45m19s).
• Companies like Alberts use Shopify to sell more products to more customers, and businesses can sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/vergecast (46m8s).
• Service Now partnered with Oxford Economics to survey 4,500 global executives and tech leaders to assess their AI maturity, finding an average score of 44 out of 100, but some enterprises are setting the pace for AI adoption by leveraging AI end-to-end to reshape how work gets done at scale (46m37s).
• Service Now's platform has AI woven into every workflow and is ready to use now, allowing customers to see results from an end-to-end approach to AI, which can be learned more about at servicenow.com/ai-maturity-index (46m43s).
• The movie Real Genius is a great film about a group of scientists who invent a laser that gets productized into a weapon, and the director did research into MIT and Caltech secret societies (47m42s).
• A group of college students, believed to be from Harvard, hacked together the Meta Ray-Ban glasses, which can stream live video, and this has been a topic of discussion among many people (49m6s).
• A private Instagram account was set up to stream live and use facial recognition to identify people being looked at, with the video showcasing the concept's potential and its terrifying implications (49m15s).
• The technology used in the video, including live streaming to Instagram and worldwide facial recognition systems, already exists and can be combined to create a product that identifies people in real-time (50m0s).
• The idea of having AR glasses that can identify people and display their names is considered a "killer app" but raises concerns about the need for a worldwide facial recognition database (50m21s).
• Meta was asked about the concept, but only responded with a block quote of their terms of service, highlighting the potential risks and implications of such technology (50m45s).
• The potential benefits of such technology include helping people remember names at large events like CES, but raises concerns about privacy and misuse (51m12s).
• The user experience of such technology could be designed to only display names if the glasses have seen the person before, but this still raises concerns about privacy and potential misuse (51m32s).
• The potential risks of such technology include the possibility of revealing sensitive information, such as infidelity, if the glasses are used by someone other than the owner (51m55s).
• Despite the concerns, it is likely that someone will develop a product that uses facial recognition to identify people in real-time, highlighting the need for careful consideration of the implications (52m27s).
• Companies like Meta could potentially build a product that uses display technology to show a person's name above their head, but this would require significant advancements in display technology and would likely raise concerns about facial recognition databases (52m34s).
• The user experience of such a product would be crucial, with options including displaying the name on glasses or sending it as a text message, but these solutions have their own limitations (52m48s).
• The idea of a product that can identify people and provide their names is not new, with examples from TV shows like "Veep" where a character has a device that tells him who people are as they approach (53m36s).
• The trade-off between convenience and privacy is a significant concern, with many people initially enthusiastic about the idea but then hesitant when they consider the implications of a worldwide facial recognition database (54m3s).
• Sonos has announced plans to fix its app, which was widely criticized for missing functionality and being buggy, with the company reportedly rushing to release the app to support its new headphones (54m39s).
• The failure of the Sonos app has had significant consequences for the company, including layoffs, and has highlighted the importance of listening to user feedback and testing products thoroughly before release (55m36s).
• Sonos has assigned Eddie Lazarus, their Chief Strategy Officer, to figure out what went wrong with their company and create a plan to improve, which includes an unwavering focus on the customer experience and establishing ambitious quality benchmarks from the outset of product development (56m6s).
• The plan also includes demonstrating humility when introducing changes, such as releasing major changes to the app gradually, which is a common practice among other companies (56m53s).
• Sonos executives are forgoing their bonuses, and the company is assembling a customer Advisory Board to get feedback and insights, but some people may be more concerned with the app's functionality than the executives' bonuses (57m19s).
• Sonos is extending the manufacturer warranty on some products, which is a positive step, and has appointed an "ombudsman" to help internally figure out what people think and deliver that opinion to those in charge (57m46s).
• The company is taking steps to ensure that internal concerns about product quality are heard and addressed, unlike in the past when some employees' warnings about the app's quality were ignored (58m11s).
• Sonos is worried that people are discovering alternative technologies, such as AirPlay 2, which can group speakers from various manufacturers together, and that their app's poor functionality may drive users away (58m45s).
• Google is introducing a new button on Chromebooks called the "quick insert" button, which replaces the caps lock button and is intended to provide AI assistance to users, allowing them to write and edit documents more easily (59m42s).
• The quick insert button is similar to the co-pilot button on Windows and is part of Google's effort to integrate AI into its products, although its usefulness as a feature is debatable (1h0m41s).
• The introduction of the quick insert button is seen as a statement of Google's commitment to AI, rather than a particularly useful feature, and is likely to remind users to use AI-powered tools (1h0m56s).
• Samsung has announced a new Chromebook with a long battery life, but the specs are not particularly impressive, and the device is not cheap, with a price tag of $6700 (1h1m42s).
• Lenovo has also announced a cheaper Chromebook, but the prices and specs of these devices are not impressive compared to other laptops on the market (1h1m45s).
• The Chromebook team at Google has not done enough to innovate and improve their products, and the fact that some users still use old devices like the Chromebook Pixel is a problem (1h2m6s).
• The Chromebook Pixel was a high-end device released in the past, known for its sleek design and metal construction, but it is now outdated and no longer supported (1h2m15s).

WordPress Drama Unveiled (1h5m52s)

• Tim Cook is a strong believer in Augmented Reality (AR) and has been publicly expressing his conviction for a long time, which is not seen in Microsoft's approach to AR (1h5m53s).
• Microsoft initially showed conviction in AR, but later lost interest and shifted focus to Artificial Intelligence (AI), which also generates revenue for Azure (1h6m29s).
• The company's conviction is primarily in Office and Azure, with other areas being secondary (1h6m50s).
• Microsoft has found a way to profit from the AI revolution without being a leader in it, which might be a concern for future leadership (1h6m55s).
• The company's past decisions, such as those related to mobile, have been questioned, and it's possible that future leadership might regret the decision to give up on AR (1h7m7s).
• Microsoft's HoloLens project was limited by the display problem, which the company was unable to solve, leading to a decision to discontinue the project (1h7m41s).
• The people who worked on HoloLens have reportedly looked at other projects, such as Orion, and concluded that they also did not solve the display problem (1h7m56s).
• WordPress, the dominant content management platform on the Internet, is involved in drama in the open-source world, but this is not directly related to the discussion on AR and AI (1h8m20s).
• The Verge is planning to move to WordPress next year, which is not considered a conflict of interest (1h8m37s).
• Matt Mullenweg, co-creator of WordPress and CEO of Automattic, is involved in a dispute with WP Engine, a company that provides services to WordPress users and hosts websites, after WP Engine was bought by a private equity company (1h10m16s).
• Mullenweg has strong negative feelings about private equity and accused WP Engine of not giving back to the open-source community, leading to a lawsuit after Automattic sent WP Engine a term sheet demanding a chunk of their revenue or employees' time dedicated to the open-source community (1h10m41s).
• The two sides are mad at each other, with Mullenweg claiming he is defending the open-source community and WP Engine accusing him of trying to bully them out of their money or existence (1h11m4s).
• Automattic is claiming trademark infringement over the WordPress name and WooCommerce, a Shopify competitor owned by Automattic, as a mechanism to get money from WP Engine, and is offering to settle the claim in exchange for a percentage of WP Engine's revenue (1h11m39s).
• The dispute involves the distinction between WordPress.com, a for-profit company that provides services and hosts websites, and WordPress.org, the open-source software that is open to everybody (1h9m43s).
• Mullenweg is also trying to distinguish between the WordPress Foundation, which has a board of directors and makes decisions, and Automattic and WordPress.com, the company he is the CEO of (1h12m10s).
• Matt Mullenweg controls the repository of all WordPress plugins and themes, which is wordpress.org, and has the power to block access to it, making life difficult for companies like WP Engine that rely on it for their business (1h12m25s).
• The WordPress Foundation controls the open-source code and has the trademark of WordPress, which was given to them by Automatic, and then licensed back to Automatic (1h13m12s).
• To use WordPress at any scale, companies probably want access to the repository of plugins and themes, which is controlled by Matt Mullenweg, and he has to like the company for them to have access (1h13m34s).
• Matt Mullenweg provides wordpress.org services to every other host, serving over 30,000 requests per second, but can take this away from companies like WP Engine if he wants to (1h13m45s).
• Companies have the right to the GPL code, but not to call the services provided by wordpress.org, and Matt Mullenweg is saying that they can either pay for the trademark or walk away from everything he provides (1h13m59s).
• The situation is complicated, as the whole point of open-source is that no one gets all the control, but Matt Mullenweg is saying that he has this control and can take it away if companies don't pay for the trademark (1h14m14s).
• The Devil's Advocate argument is that open-source companies are supposed to be able to take the code and do whatever they want with it, but private equity companies like the one that owns WP Engine are not contributing anything back to the code (1h14m32s).
• The leverage points in open-source are rarely in taking things away, as that goes against the ideals of the community, and there needs to be a better understanding of how to sort this out (1h15m8s).
• A better analogy for this situation might be with Android, where AOSP is the open-source Android that anyone can take and do whatever they want with, and lots of people do, including companies that compete with Google (1h15m34s).
• Android is open source, but to have the full experience, including the Play Store, YouTube, and Gmail, manufacturers must follow a set of rules set by Google, which can be seen as restrictive (1h15m50s).
• This situation is compared to WordPress, where having the open-source version is not the same as having the full experience with plugins and other features, which requires playing by the rules of the company behind WordPress (1h16m33s).
• The distinction is made that companies like Motorola have some agency when dealing with Google's rules for Android, but in the case of WP Engine, a hosting provider reselling WordPress hosting, the customers are being punished for choosing a competitor to wordpress.com (1h17m37s).
• WP Engine's customers are being blocked from accessing plugins due to a business dispute between WP Engine and wordpress.com, which is affecting people who use WordPress to run their businesses (1h17m48s).
• This situation highlights the issue of open-source software being controlled by a single company, which can lead to restrictions and disputes that affect end-users (1h18m14s).

Lightning Round (1h18m18s)

• The WordPress ecosystem is largely dependent on a single website, and users can still access plugins and themes from external sources, but the convenience of accessing them through wordpress.org is being threatened (1h18m19s).
• Matt Mullenweg wrote a paragraph describing the situation, stating that if WP Engine wants to control the WordPress experience, they need to run their own user login system, update servers, plugin directory, and more (1h19m5s).
• The paragraph highlights the amount of work required to replicate the WordPress ecosystem, including building a plugin directory, theme directory, and more (1h19m27s).
• The situation is being reported on by Emma, who has been doing real-time reporting and has a piece coming out on the topic (1h20m0s).
• The story is ongoing, and the show will continue to cover it (1h20m18s).
• The Toyota Crown family of cars is being promoted as a way to make driving an experience that captivates the senses, with features such as a hybrid Max powertrain and bold exterior design (1h20m25s).
• Mint Mobile is offering a limited-time promotion of $15 per month for their wireless plans when a 3-month plan is purchased (1h21m27s).
• A promotional offer for Mint Mobile is presented, where new customers can get a 3-month unlimited wireless plan for $15 a month, with a $45 upfront payment required, and the plan includes high-speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network (1h21m36s).
• Alex announces that they are leaving The Verge, and this is their last day and last Vergecast as a co-host (1h22m38s).
• Alex expresses their gratitude for the time spent working at The Verge and mentions that they will take a break to play video games and possibly start a Plex server business (1h23m0s).
• A surprise celebration is held for Alex's last episode, with a cake and a secret wish, which Alex reveals is for Amazon to fix the Kindle (1h24m18s).
• The conversation shifts to a lightning round, where Alex discusses Nintendo's efforts to find and shut down Switch emulators, specifically mentioning the case of Ryujinx (1h24m57s).
• Nintendo has taken action against a Switch emulator, with the company reaching out to the developer and asking them to stop, although it's unclear if this was done through legal channels or with an offer of money (1h25m18s).
• This is the second Switch emulator to be targeted by Nintendo, sparking theories about the company's motivations, including the possibility that they're trying to prevent Switch 2 emulation by killing off Switch 1 emulators (1h25m41s).
• One theory suggests that the Switch and Switch 2 have similar architecture, making it easier for emulators to work on both consoles, which could be why Nintendo is taking action against Switch emulators (1h25m45s).
• The situation is similar to what happened with the Wii and Wii U, where Nintendo didn't go after emulators for the Wii U, but is now taking action against Switch emulators (1h26m0s).
• The development has led to speculation that the Switch 2 may not be a significant leap forward from the original Switch, and that Switch 1 emulators may be able to play Switch 2 games (1h26m8s).
• The incident highlights the importance of emulation and the ongoing cat-and-mouse game between console manufacturers and emulator developers (1h26m24s).
• A new web app for Google Pixel Buds allows users to manage their earbuds on the web, updating firmware and changing settings, demonstrating the benefits of web-based applications (1h28m2s).
• It is possible to update the firmware on a Bluetooth headset through a web app, which is a progressive web app that can control the Bluetooth on a phone or communicate over Bluetooth from a phone, allowing for cross-platform management and access (1h28m35s).
• This approach is exciting and how it should work everywhere, as it eliminates the need to manage devices through a single device or native app (1h28m48s).
• Google has been pushing for the use of progressive web apps for years, especially for iOS, as an alternative to native apps, which can be limiting (1h29m13s).
• The ability to manage headphones through a web app is a good thing, as it speaks to the power of progressive web apps when developed and worked on properly (1h29m39s).
• Historically, many products have run tiny web servers, allowing for control through a web browser, but this approach is not always ideal (1h29m56s).
• The use of a web app to talk directly to a device, rather than through a web server, is a more cross-platform way of doing things (1h30m34s).
• This approach allows for easier management of device settings, such as those for AirPods or Bose headphones, across different platforms (1h30m43s).
• The use of web apps eliminates the need to write separate apps for Android, iOS, and desktop, making it a more efficient and convenient solution (1h31m7s).
• The ability to manage device settings through a web app can simplify the process and reduce the need for multiple apps and devices (1h31m11s).
• Google's tendency to discontinue web apps is a concern, as users may lose access to services they rely on, similar to what happened with EV charger company NLX, which left North America and shut down its backend infrastructure, rendering its chargers unusable for certain features (1h31m42s).
• Progressive web apps can solve problems related to app maintenance and availability, as they allow users to access services without relying on a specific company to maintain an app (1h33m2s).
• Direct TV is merging with Dish, another satellite TV company, in a deal worth $1 and $9 billion in debt, with the goal of reducing debt and creating a more stable satellite TV company (1h33m31s).
• The merger is part of a larger deal in which Direct TV is being spun out of AT&T by private equity company TPG Management, and will eventually merge with Dish (1h34m5s).
• The merger will allow EchoStar, the company that currently owns Dish, to pursue its goal of starting a 5G network in the US, called Genesis (1h34m20s).
• The Genesis network currently only has one phone available, the 2023 Motorola Edge Plus, which is available in some markets and uses AT&T's network (1h34m34s).
• The deal is a result of a previous agreement in which T-Mobile was allowed to buy Sprint, with some of Sprint's spectrum going to Dish Network to create a new 5G network and provide competition to major wireless carriers (1h34m52s).