The Vergecast Matter Holiday Spec-Tacular | The Vergecast

Discussion on Matter, a smart home standard

• The Vergecast is discussing Matter, an open-source standard for the smart home, created by over 200 companies, including Apple, Google, Samsung, and Amazon, designed to make smart connected devices communicate locally and with smart home platforms (1m11s).
• Matter aims to make the smart home simpler, more reliable, more secure, and more interoperable, allowing devices to work with any smart home platform without needing individual partnerships (2m28s).
• The standard is designed to enable devices to talk to each other locally and communicate with smart home platforms like Apple Home, Home Assistant, and Google Home (1m49s).
• Matter is a relatively new standard, launched in 2019, but it took a couple of years to get all the necessary components in place (3m46s).
• The hosts, including Nei and Jen, are discussing their personal experiences with smart home devices, including Nei's new oven and dishwasher, which use different apps and are not yet part of the Matter standard (10s).
• The conversation touches on the challenges of integrating different smart home devices and platforms, including smart plugs, Lutron light switch systems, and Philips Hue Lights, which are not yet part of Matter (3m1s).
• The hosts acknowledge that while Matter is a promising standard, it still has a long way to go in terms of adoption and compatibility with various devices and platforms (3m37s).
• Matter, a connectivity layer for smart homes, was launched after 2019 and has been adding more device types and features since then, aiming to enable users to control their smart homes seamlessly (3m57s).
• The idea of Matter is to provide the plumbing or Wi-Fi for smart homes, allowing users to control devices like smart lights, locks, and thermostats with ease (4m28s).
• Matter aims to enable features like whole-home energy management, which involves connecting energy devices, including home battery storage systems, solar panels, and HVAC systems, to a home energy management platform (5m22s).
• The potential benefits of Matter include saving energy and money, but it is still a long-term goal, and progress has been slow in the first two years (5m54s).
• A report card has been prepared to evaluate what is real and what is not in terms of Matter's progress, which is a common question when discussing the topic (6m3s).

Matter's progress report and challenges

• The report card is a way to assess Matter's progress and identify areas that need improvement, with the goal of providing a realistic view of what Matter can achieve (6m24s).
• Matter's progress in 2024 has been somewhat disappointing, with fewer new products released, especially in new categories like home energy management and appliances, despite the infrastructure being in place (7m19s).
• The biggest issue is not with Matter itself, but with the platforms, specifically Apple and Google, which have been slow to support new device types, affecting interoperability (8m52s).
• Matter's goal is to enable seamless interoperability between different smart home ecosystems, allowing consumers to buy devices without worrying about compatibility with their chosen platform (9m14s).
• However, this vision is not yet fully realized, as platforms like Apple Home still lack support for certain device types, such as smart fridges, despite being Matter-compatible (9m52s).
• The ecosystems are still catching up with support for new device types and specs released by the Connectivity Standards Alliance, the group behind Matter (10m5s).
• The process of adding devices to multiple platforms is often difficult and frustrating, with some cases not working as intended (11m0s).
• The lack of platform support and interoperability issues have earned the ecosystems a "C-minus" grade, indicating some effort but still significant room for improvement (10m21s).
• The current state of interoperability in smart home devices is lacking, with different platforms not being able to seamlessly work together, earning a grade of "D" for their efforts (11m11s).
• Setting up a smart home system in one platform, such as Apple Home, requires redoing the setup in another platform, like Google Home or Samsung SmartThings, which is a major inconvenience (11m28s).
• Although some progress has been made, with the introduction of Matter multi-admin, which allows for local communication between devices and fewer steps to set up, it is still not perfect (12m1s).
• The ideal scenario, where setting up a device in one platform automatically makes it available in another, is not yet available but is promised to be coming soon (12m48s).
• The concept of "effort grades" is discussed, where the speaker jokingly gives Matter a "C" for effort, implying that while progress is being made, it is not enough (13m14s).
• The idea of effort grades is further explained, where it is compared to a school grading system, where a student's effort is graded separately from their actual performance (13m36s).

The current state of smart home interoperability and its challenges

• The ultimate goal of smart home interoperability is for devices from different manufacturers to work seamlessly together, with minimal setup required, and for the user to be able to easily switch between different platforms (14m27s).
• The smart home industry has a negative incentive to make devices cross-compatible, as companies like Apple, Google, and others focus on making their own products work seamlessly, rather than collaborating with other companies to create a universal standard (14m48s).
• Despite this, companies are working together to create a universal standard through the Matter protocol, with Apple essentially giving HomeKit to Matter, allowing other companies to use it (15m27s).
• However, there is still a lack of effort in making devices truly interoperable, with companies focusing on adding features that may not be useful to consumers, rather than making devices work seamlessly together (15m40s).
• The lack of multi-admin support, which would allow multiple users to control devices in a smart home, is a major issue, with companies not having an incentive to implement it (16m13s).
• If Matter does not work at its basic foundational level, it will take away the incentive for companies to use it, creating a flywheel effect that makes it harder for the smart home industry to simplify and become more mainstream (16m34s).
• The goal of Matter is to make the smart home simpler and easier to use, but it is still too complicated for average homeowners and renters, requiring users to know too much about the underlying technology (16m50s).
• The industry is pushing for a future where users do not need to know about technical terms like "border router" and can simply use devices without knowing how they work, but this goal has not yet been achieved (17m22s).
• Some argue that users should not need to know about the underlying technology, just like they do not need to know about Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, but others disagree, saying that many people are already aware of these technologies and that it is not possible to make them completely invisible (17m32s).
• Many people experience issues with their smart home devices, such as Bluetooth connectivity problems and Wi-Fi password confusion, which can be frustrating and make them less likely to adopt smart home technology (18m10s).
• The Matter protocol aims to simplify smart home technology and make it more user-friendly, but it may not be effective if people don't understand how it works (18m22s).
• The goal of smart home technology should be to make it invisible and seamless, but this requires users to have a basic understanding of how it works (18m49s).
• Currently, smart home devices are often used for simple tasks like turning on lights, but there needs to be more compelling use cases to make smart home technology more appealing to the average user (19m32s).
• Emerging use cases, such as energy management, may help bring smart home technology into sharper focus and drive mass adoption (20m5s).

Matter's adoption, cost, and complexity

• The Matter protocol is helping to make smart home devices more accessible and affordable, with more devices available at lower price points, such as a $20 smart switch that works with Apple Home (21m2s).
• Despite some complaints from manufacturers, the Matter protocol is making it easier for companies to enter the smart home market and for users to adopt smart home technology (21m20s).
• Matter is a protocol that aims to simplify smart home devices, but it's expensive and complicated to implement, which is a roadblock to its adoption, and it needs to reach critical mass to be successful (21m30s).
• For Matter to work, it cannot be a niche protocol like Zigbee or Z-Wave, and it needs to be more general and mass-market, and it should not cost more than regular devices (21m40s).
• The cost of smart home devices, such as Lutron light switches, is a significant factor, and while some people may be willing to pay a little more for additional features, a 5-10 times higher price point is not acceptable (22m17s).
• Some companies, like Lutron, are not investing in Matter because they already work with all platforms and have their own local solutions, but this means they still require a bridge or hub (22m50s).
• One of the promises of Matter was to eliminate bridges and hubs, but this has not been achieved, and many devices still require a hub or bridge to function (23m2s).
• The use of different wireless protocols, such as Z-Wave and Thread, can cause issues with connectivity and range, and some devices, like Ring, require extenders to cover the whole house (23m52s).
• Thread is a lower-power protocol that Matter should run on, but it requires Thread border routers, which are not yet widely available and do not all talk to each other (24m17s).
• The high cost and complexity of some smart home devices, like Lutron switches, are due to the use of proprietary wireless protocols and the need for a reliable connection throughout the house (24m35s).
• Matter was created to simplify smart home devices, but it faces significant challenges in achieving this goal, and it's competing with established companies like Lutron that have their own solutions (24m52s).
• Matter is a protocol that combines different sub-protocols and standards, including those donated by companies like Apple, Amazon, and Google, to create a unified smart home system (24m56s).
• Lutron's custom Spectrum protocol was not used in Matter, instead, Thread was chosen, which has had issues, particularly with lighting, and companies like Nano Leaf have had to create their own protocols (25m17s).
• Thread is not required for Matter to work, and Matter can be used over Wi-Fi or other protocols, but Thread does need a software layer, such as Matter or HomeKit (25m47s).
• Thread was developed specifically for IoT and smart home use, with low power and low bandwidth mesh networking, but its launch with Matter has caused significant problems (26m14s).
• Thread released its 1.4 Pro spec this year, which aims to fix issues with the protocol, but the combination of Thread and Matter has caused problems due to the two standards working together (27m5s).
• Despite issues, some people are interested in using Thread in their homes, citing its reliability, but the lack of devices and compatibility issues have hindered its adoption (27m18s).
• The development of Thread and Matter is driven by member-driven organizations, with Apple, Google, and Samsung being part of the Thread group, but Apple and Google are pushing Thread more than other platforms (27m45s).
• Apple's usual strategy of driving adoption by including new technology in their products, such as Thread radios in their phones, is not working as well as expected (28m13s).
• Matter, a smart home standard, is moving slowly due to politics and the involvement of many companies, making it difficult to achieve its goals (28m33s).
• The development of Matter feels like a camel designed by committee, with many people involved and a lack of a single driving force (28m42s).
• The standard's progress is hindered by the need for companies to work together and agree on its implementation (28m56s).

The Vergecast's "Matter Holiday Spec-Tacular" game

• The annual tradition of playing games around the spec has begun, with the first game being the Match Game, where players match matter-specific things with their definitions (33m46s).
• The Match Game cards have seven different matter-specific things on the left and their definitions on the right, and players have 2 minutes to complete the game (34m42s).
• Some of the words on the Match Game cards, such as "matter fabric," may be fake, and the definitions were pulled from the CSA website (35m11s).
• The game is hosted by Liam James, the producer and MC, who encourages players to play the game with their family and warns that it may make them look silly in front of everyone (33m54s).
• A two-minute timer was set to define various terms related to Matter, a smart home standard, with the goal of determining if the definitions provided by the Connectivity Standards Alliance (CSA) are clear and easy to follow (35m49s).
• The first term to be defined was "Matter device," with Nei, Jen, and David all choosing the same definition: a smart home hardware product that supports Matter and can be connected to and controlled by a Matter controller (36m44s).
• The group found the CSA's definitions to be somewhat circular, with terms often being defined as themselves, which can be confusing and lead to a false sense of security (37m33s).
• The next term to be defined was "Smart Home Hub," with Nei, Jen, and David again choosing the same definition: typically a connection point in the home for multiple smart home devices, usually specific to the vendor that provided it (37m54s).
• The group noted that this definition is not ideal, as it implies that a smart home hub is typically specific to a single vendor, which is not always the case (38m14s).
• The final term to be defined was "Matter Administrator," with Nei choosing a definition that describes an entity that can control Matter devices, while Jen and David chose a different definition that describes a device or application that creates, maintains, and manages Matter devices (38m45s).
• A matter fabric refers to a virtual private network over which matter devices, admins, and controllers communicate with each other, essentially a virtual network within a home where matter devices are connected together (40m52s).
• A matter administrator is described as a bureaucrat, while a matter controller is said to control the "spice," with the controller being compared to a higher-ranking figure, such as Palpatine (40m28s).
• The difference between a matter administrator and a matter controller lies in their definitions, with a matter controller being a device or application that manages security and privileges for all devices on the fabric, and a matter administrator being an entity that can control matter devices (41m48s).
• The matter controller is defined as a device or application that creates, maintains, and manages security and privileges for all devices on the fabric, which is different from the definition of a matter administrator (41m41s).
• A matter administrator is an entity that can control matter devices, with functionality that can be built into various types of hardware devices or mobile apps (41m58s).
• The matter controller is compared to a figure with higher rank in a sci-fi fantasy world, such as in Dune, where the controller has more power than the administrator (42m19s).
• The difference in definitions between a matter controller and a matter administrator is noted, with a matter controller being a device or application and a matter administrator being an entity (42m55s).
• Matter entity is in charge, and an administrator is the spirit of Matter, which can be a physical device or an application, but apps can't be controllers on their own, they can only be administrators (43m9s).
• The definitions of administrators and controllers are essentially the same, but a controller is like a device that can turn lights on and off, while an administrator can kick people out of the fabric (44m34s).
• The disagreement is about whether an administrator is a higher rank than a controller, with some arguing that the Connectivity Standards Association got it wrong (44m30s).
• A Thread Border Router enables Thread devices to connect to the local network, allowing them to communicate with other IP-based devices built on technology such as Wi-Fi or Ethernet (45m23s).
• A Matter Bridge translates from one protocol to another, allowing non-Matter smart devices to connect to a Matter fabric (45m49s).
• The CSA's website has outdated information, and the definitions of administrators and controllers are the same, with some arguing that the CSA needs to fix their website (43m54s).
• The argument is about the ranking of administrators and controllers, with some referencing the Dune Universe, where a controller is a heavy word, and an administrator is not (46m46s).
• The discussion revolves around the concept of Matter, a unified connectivity standard, and its complexities, with a mention that it is more complicated than it initially seems (47m16s).
• The current scores in the game are: David is leading with 18 points, and Nei Patel and Jen Tuille are tied with 12 points each (47m32s).
• The next game is Matter Mad Libs, where participants have to fill in the blanks in a pre-written sentence with given word choices to make it complete and make sense (48m13s).
• The sentence for Matter Mad Libs is: "Formerly known as _ is a unified connectivity standard developed by the , the protocol aims to ensure reliable, secure, and seamless communication between smart home devices regardless of brand or platform, it works through , , and , so it can be added to devices that support any of these protocols, Matter's key Advantage is that it uses a standardized , Matter lets you and use its devices across _ for more choice and control, so you don't end up stuck on one platform" (48m34s).
• The word choices for the Mad Libs are: ecosystem, ecosystems, Bluetooth, Matter, IP protocol, Wi-Fi, chip, thread, CSA, and pair (49m7s).
• Jen Tuille's completed sentence for the Mad Libs is: "Formerly known as chip Matter is a unified connectivity standard developed by the CSA, the protocol aims to ensure reliable, secure, and seamless communication between smart home devices regardless of the brand or platform, it works through Wi-Fi, red, and Bluetooth, so it can be added to devices that support any of these protocols, Matter's key Advantage is that it uses a standardized IP protocol, Matter lets you pair and use its devices across ecosystems for more choice and control, so you don't end up stuck on one platform" (50m7s).
• The Matter protocol, developed by the CSA, aims to ensure reliable, secure, and seamless communication between smart home devices, regardless of the brand or platform, and works through Thread, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth (50m56s).
• Matter's key advantage is that it uses a standardized ecosystem, allowing users to pair and use devices across different platforms for more choice and control (51m21s).
• The protocol lets users pair and use devices across IP protocols, providing more choice and control, and preventing users from being stuck on one platform (51m26s).
• Matter can be added to devices that support Thread, Wi-Fi, or Bluetooth, making it a versatile protocol (51m20s).
• The protocol was formerly known as CHIP, or the Unified Connectivity Standard, developed by the CSA (51m43s).
• Bluetooth is not a protocol of Matter, but rather an onboarding protocol, with Ethernet being the other protocol (52m21s).
• The winner of the round is a three-way tie between Jen, Eli, and David, with 39 points each, but Jen is declared the winner for being the first to show up with a Matter device (53m56s).
• Jen has won the "Matter Holiday Spec-Tacular" game and is now referred to as the "fabric master" (55m6s).

Discussion on the future of smart home devices with Paul Shotton from Home Assistant

• Amazon Q is a generative AI assistant from AWS that helps streamline work and tasks, such as summarizing monthly results (57m47s).
• Paul Shotton, a guest on the show, is wearing a Christmas sweater that is being discussed by the hosts (58m17s).
• The GitHub Christmas sweater is described as having big GitHub letters on it, along with various icons spread out over the sleeves, chest, and shoulders, and is considered both "on brand" and "very good" (58m29s).
• The guest works on and created a home assistant and is the president of the Open Home Foundation, which owns the Home Assistant and ESPHome open-source projects, aiming to build a smart home around privacy, choice, and sustainability (59m9s).
• The Open Home Foundation's goal is to influence and steer the IoT market by building technology, similar to how Mozilla builds Firefox, and by existing, they are influencing and steering the market (59m35s).
• The guest believes that Google and Apple look at what they are doing and take it into consideration, and their product managers talk to people in their community, giving them a lot of influence in the market (59m45s).
• Home Assistant is considered the biggest open-source smart home platform in the world, and people often start with a Google or Amazon smart home platform before switching to Home Assistant for more integrations, privacy, or history (1h0m22s).
• The guest believes that Home Assistant will never be defeated, even if Matter shows up and works perfectly, because there will always be devices that don't work on Matter, making it easier to bridge them into a common platform (1h1m33s).
• Matter will help Home Assistant by making it easier for the platform to exist, as it will provide a common standard for devices to communicate with each other (1h1m56s).
• Matter is a local standard that allows devices to communicate with a smart home hub without relying on the cloud, and it works over IP, making it compatible with Wi-Fi and allowing devices to talk locally to the hub (1h2m17s).
• This means that devices can function even when the internet is down, and users can control them directly through their phones or home assistants without needing to go through the cloud (1h2m39s).
• Matter is not a direct competitor to other smart home protocols, but rather a standard that can help grow the smart home ecosystem and make it more accessible to users (1h2m5s).
• The fact that Matter works over IP and is compatible with Wi-Fi means that it can be used with a wide range of devices, including Android and iPhone smartphones, without requiring extra radios (1h3m6s).
• This makes it an attractive option for businesses and developers, as it provides a large potential market and a pre-installed user base through the Google Home and Apple Home apps (1h3m21s).
• However, other smart home protocols like Z-Wave still have a space in the market, particularly in situations where Wi-Fi is not pre-installed, such as in new homes or during the setup process (1h4m27s).
• The Z-Wave alliance, which is a separate protocol, uses QR codes for setup and does not work over IP, highlighting the need for multiple smart home standards to accommodate different use cases and scenarios (1h4m21s).
• While Matter has the potential to eventually become the dominant standard, it will likely take a long time, and in the meantime, other protocols will continue to play a role in the smart home ecosystem (1h4m58s).
• Home Assistant is a central platform that can work with Matter and other protocols, and its focus on local control and avoiding cloud reliance is seen as a positive development in the smart home space (1h5m6s).
• The idea of having a server in the home to manage smart home devices seems powerful, but it's often met with skepticism about its feasibility, with many people opting for cloud-based solutions instead (1h5m30s).
• Standardizing smart home devices can lead to commoditization, making it difficult to innovate, and many companies are pushing for cloud-based solutions to get around this issue (1h6m7s).
• However, having a local server in the home, similar to a router or cable modem, could be the future of smart home management, with devices like the Home Assistant server being small and low-power (1h6m29s).
• The concept of Matter, a local protocol, implies that there will be a device in the home that runs everything, and some companies like Google and Samsung are pushing for local processing instead of cloud-based solutions (1h7m8s).
• Matter seems to promise a lower barrier to entry for smart home adoption, making it easier for people to build a smart home from scratch, which is valuable for getting people into the market (1h8m16s).
• As a product guy working on Home Assistant, which is geared towards people willing to do some work to make their smart home devices work, the idea of Matter is appealing, but it's unclear how it will affect the market and the need for local servers (1h7m45s).
• Matter is relevant to smart home assistants, mainly due to its IP-based and Wi-Fi-based features, which allow for cameras and other devices to be connected, unlike other standards such as Z-Wave or Zigbee (1h8m46s).
• Matter is skipping some sensors, which has caused annoyance in the smart home industry, but it is slowly adding features like energy monitoring (1h9m10s).
• Cameras and vacuums are being launched as part of the Matter specification, with some products already available, but more are expected to come (1h9m20s).
• Matter allows devices to be connected differently due to its increased bandwidth, making it a promising technology for smart home devices (1h9m40s).
• Thread, a part of Matter, has a complex setup process, which was intended to simplify network configuration but has led to issues with multiple Thread networks in homes (1h10m7s).
• The Thread setup process involves automatically creating a network name and key, which is then sent to devices, but this has caused problems with device connectivity (1h10m23s).
• The Thread standard requires border routers from different companies, such as Apple, Google, and Samsung, to share network keys, but this has not been implemented smoothly (1h10m38s).
• The lack of seamless network key sharing has resulted in multiple Thread networks in homes, causing connectivity issues (1h11m4s).
• Efforts are being made to fix the Thread network key sharing issue, including a new credential sharing system, but it is still in its early stages (1h11m33s).
• The Matter protocol aims to enable seamless communication between different smart home devices, but it's not yet successful in achieving this goal, and users may still experience issues when trying to integrate devices from different ecosystems (1h11m48s).
• The smart home industry is fragmented, with users often having a mix of devices from different manufacturers, making it difficult to achieve a unified and functional smart home system (1h13m8s).
• The Matter Alliance, which includes companies like Apple, Google, and Amazon, is working to create an open standard for sharing devices, but finding a balance between this goal and protecting individual ecosystems is challenging (1h13m40s).
• Some companies are aware of bugs in their border routers that affect interoperability with other platforms, but they may not prioritize fixing these issues if they don't affect their own ecosystem (1h13m49s).
• The Matter protocol is considered a good technical protocol, built on the knowledge and expertise of its member companies, including Zigbee, HomeKit, Google, and Amazon (1h14m37s).
• Matter devices can be connected to up to five different smart home hubs at the same time, and users can share devices between different platforms, such as Google Home and Home Assistant (1h15m2s).
• Despite its potential, the Matter protocol still has limitations and issues, and it's not yet a fully functional solution for achieving a unified smart home system (1h14m29s).
• Matter has its own encrypted secure connection, but adding multiple features requires bigger chips in devices like light bulbs, increasing their cost and memory requirements (1h15m13s).
• Setting up a Meta device with a QR code is only for the first time, and users must go to a home assistant to share it with other platforms, but many people don't know this and use the QR code repeatedly, compromising security (1h15m36s).
• The foundational level of authentication and onboarding in Matter is good, but energy monitoring and other features will take time for people to agree on (1h15m57s).
• Matter gets overhyped with the release of new specifications, but it takes time for device manufacturers and controllers to support new features, creating a chicken-and-egg problem (1h16m11s).
• The dream of smart home control is to be able to control devices from anywhere without complicated setup, but currently, a central platform is still needed, and Matter is not yet close to achieving this (1h17m19s).
• Home Assistant has smarter automations, and Google and Amazon want to use AI for automation, but Matter is supposed to show all devices everywhere without complicated setup (1h17m49s).
• The central platform will never fully go away, as the moment something is part of Matter, it becomes standardized, but it will evolve over time (1h18m26s).
• Companies that drive innovation will not be fully captured in Matter, leading to extra systems with their own APIs that integrate with Google and Home Assistant, but may not be compatible with Apple (1h18m32s).
• Default smart home devices like light bulbs will likely switch to Matter, but more complicated devices like media players will not be fully integrated with Matter in the next 5 years (1h19m0s).
• When Matter comes to TVs, it may be a turning point for the technology, but it's unclear how much innovation will be allowed on top of the protocol (1h19m25s).
• There are two possible versions of Matter: one where it handles the basics and allows for competition and innovation on top, and another where everything is pushed down into the protocol (1h19m36s).
• The balance between what is an interesting innovation and what should be baked into Matter by default is a difficult question to answer (1h19m55s).
• The CSA Alliance, which makes Matter, wants to put everything in the protocol, including wireless routers and electronics in the home (1h20m11s).
• The vision for Matter is to have a base layer for smart home devices, with the possibility of expanding to other areas like wireless routers and cars (1h20m30s).
• The foundation of Matter is solid and works as intended, but there may be friction and difficult user experiences when it comes to interoperability and different manufacturers implementing things in different ways (1h21m4s).
• Matter is helping push Home Assistant to become a more mainstream platform, rather than just a way to connect devices that couldn't connect to HomeKit (1h21m36s).
• The goal of Matter is to provide a simple foundation for smart home devices, allowing companies to innovate and build experiences on top of it (1h21m50s).
• A smart home is a product that everyone is trying to build, but the problem of where the home fits in the computing landscape remains unsolved (1h22m20s).
• The big unlock of the smart home is the ability to have seamless interactions between devices, such as lights turning on when motion is detected in the hallway (1h22m30s).
• Currently, achieving this requires a lot of setup and programming, such as using a Phillips Hue Hub with adaptive lighting and figuring out the logic for sensor-activated lighting (1h22m42s).
• Matter doesn't solve this problem, but rather puts devices in a place where someone else can solve it, which may not create demand for Matter devices unless the value of having smart devices is articulated (1h22m56s).
• Google and Apple want to compete on making smart home platforms, not individual devices like light bulbs, which have low margins (1h23m16s).
• They aim to commoditize smart devices, making them plug-and-play, and then build innovative user-facing experiences on top of that (1h24m7s).
• The ultimate goal is to create a seamless experience where devices work together, such as a motion sensor on a thermostat triggering lights to turn on (1h24m30s).
• However, this can lead to complex and emergent behaviors, making it difficult to understand how the system works (1h24m49s).
• The ideal solution would be to have a simple way to access and use existing devices and their capabilities, rather than having redundant capabilities in multiple devices (1h24m57s).
• Smart home platforms can learn a user's habits and automatically perform tasks, such as turning on lights in the morning, which can be an incredible signal for other tasks to happen, and Home Assistant is working on making this possible (1h25m9s).
• Matter allows users to bring more devices directly into Home Assistant, instead of just serving as a bridge, and this can make the smart home platform more powerful and capable (1h25m18s).
• Home Assistant is an open platform that allows third-party dashboards, automation engines, and AI to plug in, making it a more comprehensive solution for smart home management (1h25m49s).
• Apple's approach to smart home management is different, with a focus on making it easy for users to control their devices through a simple UI, and their apps are installed on a billion phones, making it a major entry point for the smart home world (1h26m19s).
• Home Assistant, on the other hand, is geared towards users who have a specific problem to solve and need a more extensive toolkit to customize their smart home setup (1h26m46s).
• However, this can be overwhelming for some users, and there is a gap in smart home platforms that needs to be solved, which is to make it easier for users to discover and apply automation solutions (1h27m15s).
• Matter can help solve this problem by providing device-to-device communication, making it easier for users to find devices that can trigger specific actions, such as turning on lights (1h27m35s).
• With Matter, devices can be bound together, making it easier for users to set up their smart home devices without needing to go through a complicated setup process in an app (1h27m54s).
• This can be combined with a smart home platform to add an extra layer of automation, such as adaptive lighting, which can turn on lights at the right time of day or temperature (1h28m11s).
• Matter allows manufacturers to create devices that can work with multiple platforms, such as Apple Home and Google, without requiring significant resources and time, making it easier for small startups and open-source home platforms to develop better products (1h28m26s).
• The concept of binding devices together has never been successful in the past, with technologies like Zigbee and Z-Wave being difficult to explain to users and often resulting in complex setup processes (1h29m1s).
• The success of Matter is being compared to the development of Bluetooth, which took 20 years to reach its full potential with the release of Apple's AirPods in 2016 (1h29m37s).
• However, it's unlikely that Matter will have an "AirPods moment" due to the complexity of working with multiple devices and ecosystems (1h30m2s).
• Apple's control over its entire ecosystem gives it an advantage in creating seamless experiences, but this is not possible in the Matter world where devices from different manufacturers need to work together (1h30m20s).
• The biggest challenge for Matter is getting different devices and systems to work together, making it difficult to achieve a unified smart home experience (1h30m39s).
• Some companies, such as big appliance manufacturers, have a strong incentive to use Matter as it can help them reduce cloud costs and avoid subscription fees for their apps (1h31m3s).
• Matter may be more successful with commodity devices like light bulbs and smart plug outlets, but it's unclear if it will be adopted by more complex devices like robot vacuums (1h31m27s).
• The future of Matter may involve a base layer of commodity connectivity, with more advanced features and devices layered on top, similar to how USB and Bluetooth work (1h31m44s).
• The trend of commoditization will continue, with more devices adding features, but some features may not be part of the Matter protocol, such as AI-powered pet galleries in robot vacuums (1h32m1s).
• Some companies, like garage door opener manufacturers, may not want to work with Matter due to business cases and competition with their own products (1h32m33s).
• The adoption of Matter may take time, potentially a year or more, and its success will depend on various factors, including the development of new devices and the expansion of its ecosystem (1h33m0s).
• Over the next 12 months, Matter will likely continue to evolve, with new specs and devices being released, while Home Assistant will focus on making smart home devices more accessible to users (1h33m37s).
• Energy Management in the home is an area where Matter can shine, with potential applications such as smart home controllers that can manage energy usage and optimize charging for electric cars (1h33m55s).
• Home Assistant is working on energy management solutions, but it's a long-term effort that requires collaboration with universities and other partners (1h34m46s).
• Home Assistant is willing to be a power user platform for a while, but the goal is to make smart home technology more accessible to a wider audience, with ready-made hubs like the Home Assistant Green available for purchase (1h35m13s).
• The journey of creating a smart home typically starts with using a few smart apps, then moving to Google or Apple, and eventually to Home Assistant due to limitations, and this journey is expected to remain the same as people come to Home Assistant with some knowledge and a problem to solve (1h35m32s).
• Home Assistant aims to make the smart home easier to control for the rest of the household, not just the person who set it up, by providing an easy interface, as the smart home is not personal and often involves multiple people interacting with it (1h35m56s).
• The idea of a "spousal approval factor" is being worked on, making the smart home more accessible and user-friendly for everyone in the household (1h35m54s).
• A potential feature being considered is a survey button that allows non-admin users to give feedback to the admin on what they like on the dashboard (1h36m33s).
• The goal is to make the smart home more stable and secure, addressing concerns about companies going out of business and cloud servers going down, which can impact the functionality of smart home devices (1h38m1s).

Discussion on recipe apps and smart kitchen devices

• A person is having trouble keeping track of their favorite online recipes due to the ever-changing nature of search engine optimization and referrals, often finding that the links to these recipes are no longer present, and is looking for an app to collect and preserve these recipes (1h41m59s).
• The person hopes to find an app that not only preserves the recipes but also allows them to use their smart devices to help with the cooking process by rendering the recipes in a more readable format (1h42m44s).
• Jen has experienced similar issues and has tried using the Samsung Food app, which pulls recipe data and stores it within the app, but notes that the original link to the recipe is still present and may eventually become inactive (1h43m25s).
• The Samsung Food app can pull ingredients and step-by-step instructions from recipes and works with some smart devices, such as smart fridges, allowing users to view recipes on a larger screen (1h43m45s).
• Jen's preferred recipe app is Paprika, which has been around for a long time and allows users to store their recipes locally, ensuring they never go away (1h45m18s).
• Paprika has been Jen's go-to app for storing recipes over the years, and she has been trying the Samsung Food app as a supplement to her existing setup (1h45m28s).
• Paprika is a popular app for cooking recipes, but the user also mentions an experimental app with interesting features, although Paprika remains their go-to choice (1h45m32s).
• The user notes the difficulty of accessing Paprika on a smart display, such as the 21-inch Echo Show, which they have been testing for cooking recipes in the kitchen (1h45m39s).
• A smart display that doubles as a cutting board is considered a desirable product, and Bosch had showcased a similar concept at CES 2018, featuring a projector that displays recipes onto the countertop (1h46m0s).
• Other recommended apps for cooking recipes include Pestle, which excels at pulling recipes from TikTok and Instagram, and Mela, a beautifully designed app with a plain text interface (1h46m27s).
• Pestle's ability to import recipes from social media platforms is notable, despite the challenges of extracting recipes from non-standard formats (1h47m17s).
• Crouton is another app that has gained popularity for its features, including generating grocery lists and meal planning capabilities (1h47m43s).
• Some apps, such as Crouton and Samsung Food, allow users to meal plan and automatically generate shopping lists, which can be sent to services like Instacart (1h47m54s).
• The user acknowledges the benefits of meal planning but admits to struggling with finding the time to plan meals in advance (1h48m3s).
• The apps' ability to generate shopping lists can sometimes lead to overbuying, as users may opt to purchase items in bulk rather than following the recommended quantities (1h48m39s).
• Samsung has a vision for the kitchen that involves a cohesive system where users can input ingredients or desired meals and receive recipe suggestions, and they are the closest to achieving this goal (1h48m51s).
• Samsung recently announced new screens and devices, including a small screen that can be placed on top of a cooktop to display recipes, and a smaller screen for the fridge (1h49m13s).
• The Family Hub fridge now has a smaller screen option for users who want a more compact display (1h49m39s).
• Some people use iPads or other tablets in the kitchen to display recipes, often with magnetic mounts, but this can be risky due to spills and other accidents (1h49m47s).
• Samsung Food is a recipe organizer app that is based on the original smart recipe app Whisk, and it has many of the same features as other recipe apps (1h50m35s).
• Samsung Food has a lot of ads, but users can pay to remove them, and it is a good option for those looking for a recipe app (1h50m49s).
• The app allows users to add their food list and scan food to add it to their list, and it can suggest recipes based on the ingredients they have at home (1h51m45s).
• However, the feature that suggests recipes based on a picture of the food the user has is not very useful (1h52m1s).
• A feature that allows users to take a picture of a dish and generates a recipe for it is available, which could be useful for recreating favorite restaurant meals at home (1h52m15s).
• The air fryer is a kitchen appliance that can be used to make various dishes, and it is expected to be used more frequently during the holiday season (1h52m31s).
• There are several recipe websites available, including Samsung Food, Paprika, Yummly, Crouton, and Mila, and users can try them out to find the one that works best for them (1h52m43s).
• It is recommended to save recipes from these websites as they may not be available forever, and printing them out can be a good way to preserve them (1h52m52s).
• The holiday season is a time for celebration and trying new things, and it's okay to make mistakes and learn from them (1h53m20s).
• The goal for next year is to improve and do better, with a target grade of at least a C-minus (1h53m25s).

Concluding remarks and sponsors

• The Vergecast is a production of The Verge and Box Media Podcast Network, and the show is produced by Liam James, Will Porough, and Eric Gomez (1h54m11s).