Zachary Bookman: Why Valuations and Fundraising are BS | E1235

Intro (0s)

• Venture capital funds take around 15 to 20 years to distribute the money, which is longer than the commonly perceived 5 to 10 years (9s).
• The success of a business relies on a power law, focusing on finding the next highly successful company, such as Coinbase or OpenSea (16s).
• Even successful exits like OpenSea, which is a couple of billion-dollar type exit, do not significantly impact the overall business (23s).
• Zachary Bookman is excited to be on the show and appreciates the rapport established during the initial call (51s).
• The conversation aims to dive right into the topic at hand, starting from the foundational point of the company (58s).
• Harry is the host of the show, and Zachary Bookman is the guest being interviewed (54s).

Navigating Enterprise Sales & Pricing Strategies (59s)

• Starting a company can be a lengthy process, with some companies experiencing a "Wilderness period" where they struggle to find direction, and it may take several years for things to start working, as was the case with the company in question, which took around five years to gain traction (1m7s).
• When selling enterprise software, it's essential to get alignment within the customer's organization, which can be challenging due to the presence of multiple stakeholders with differing opinions, and achieving alignment requires significant investment in sales, marketing, and customer success, making it an expensive process (2m20s).
• The cost of sales and marketing cannot be justified by selling low-priced software, and companies need to aim for higher average selling prices (ASPs) to make the sales cycle worthwhile, with some companies targeting seven-figure deals (3m23s).
• Mark Andreessen's advice is to charge high prices for big companies, medium prices for medium-sized companies, and small prices for small companies, and there is no upper limit on the price of software, as it depends on the quantity of software, the pain it solves, and the value it creates (3m46s).
• Companies like Tanium and Palantir have successfully charged high prices for their software, with Palantir reportedly securing a $100 million deal with JP Morgan by identifying a significant pain point and offering a solution that could save the company a substantial amount of money (4m29s).
• The story of Palantir's deal with JP Morgan illustrates the importance of identifying and solving significant pain points for customers and being willing to walk away if the price is not right, as the company reportedly walked away from the deal and only returned to negotiations after six months (4m57s).

The Importance of High Gross Retention in SaaS (5m19s)

• The company's mission is to power more effective and accountable government, which is considered contrarian in Silicon Valley, but has led to a loyal customer base with high gross retention rates (5m55s).
• High gross retention is crucial in Enterprise SaaS, and companies with rates in the 70s and 80s are less desirable, whereas those in the mid to high 90s are more attractive (6m12s).
• The company's steady growth while others were experiencing high growth rates has allowed it to surpass those companies in growth rates, with the company growing faster than those that were previously smashing it with 70-100% growth rates (6m35s).
• Gross retention refers to the amount a customer is paying for software a year later, compared to the initial amount, whereas net retention includes overall increase in dollars from upsells and cross-sales (6m49s).
• Companies in govtech have achieved high gross retention rates of 97-99%, making their revenue almost an annuity, but this comes with lower growth rates (7m17s).
• The importance of high growth rates is debated, but compounding over a 10-12 year period may make a difference, and venture funds today need companies to reach $10 billion in value (7m30s).
• The durability of growth is a key factor in the govtech space, with private equity firms interested in companies with sustainable growth, as many venture-backed companies struggle to maintain growth beyond $50-200 million (7m51s).
• The company's high gross retention rate has made it an attractive target for private equity firms, which value the sustainability and durability of growth in the govtech space (7m58s).

Investor Relations and the Power Law in Venture Capital (8m27s)

• Tyler Technologies is a successful company in the govtech vertical, with $2 billion in annual revenue, trading at $25 billion on the S&P 500, and is considered a Wall Street darling, yet few people have heard of it (8m27s).
• The company's growth durability is an example of what can happen when a company grows at a consistent rate, such as 25%, 24%, and 23%, compared to companies that grow rapidly but then experience a decline in growth rate (9m3s).
• The dynamics in a business can be different from those in another business, and it's essential to understand these differences, especially in verticalized markets where there may be room to build big software companies, but not many great companies in single verticals (9m26s).
• Venture investors and entrepreneurs have different goals and incentives, with investors seeking to find the next big success, such as Coinbase or Uber, while entrepreneurs may be satisfied with a smaller exit, which may not move the needle for investors (10m3s).
• The power law in venture capital means that investors are incentivized to focus on the top 1% of companies, which can make it challenging for entrepreneurs to understand and navigate the investment landscape (10m22s).
• Investors like Andreessen Horowitz and Founders Fund manage many billions of dollars and are in a different game, focusing on the very top 1% of companies, which can make it difficult for entrepreneurs to get their attention (11m16s).
• As an investor, it's essential to be open, honest, and authentic about the investment process and the goals of the investor, rather than trying to build a brand as founder-friendly (12m17s).

WTF is Product Market Fit (12m27s)

• The concept of being an "unloved" company can be beneficial, as it provides freedom from constant investor attention and allows the company to shine without external pressures (13m1s).
• Moral support from investors can be more valuable than constant strategy sessions, as it provides motivation and encouragement to founders (13m24s).
• A simple note or gesture of support from an investor, such as Josh Kushner or Joe, can have a significant impact on a founder's morale and motivation (13m42s).
• The brand name of an investor can have a significant impact on a company's ability to recruit talent, secure press, and gain credibility with customers (14m42s).
• However, for companies that can bootstrap, avoiding venture capital and maintaining ownership can be the ultimate goal, allowing founders to avoid conflicts and own more of their company (15m9s).
• The Founder Collective, a seed investor, emphasizes the importance of raising less capital and owning more of one's company, which resonates with the idea of avoiding conflicts and maintaining control (16m7s).
• Cutting costs and reducing spending can lead to faster growth, as seen in the experience of the company, which started cutting costs before the COVID-19 pandemic and saw significant growth (16m32s).

What No One Knows About M&A (16m37s)

• A company received a term sheet from Weatherford Capital in Tampa, offering a valuation of $210 million, and five years later, the company's valuation had increased to $1.8 billion, with revenue initially in the $20 million range and the company burning cash at the time of the initial valuation (16m37s).
• The company was burning cash due to being a single-product company, but after acquiring a company in the permitting and licensing space in August 2019, they were able to broaden their product suite, which improved the economics of the business (17m1s).
• The acquisition allowed the company to increase its average selling price (ASP) for the same cost, as they had more products to offer, and they continued to make acquisitions to broaden their portfolio suite, with one acquisition per year (17m30s).
• The company's approach to mergers and acquisitions (M&A) is to buy for product quality and adjacency, rather than just for customers or revenue, which helps to jump-start innovation (17m58s).
• M&A is often seen as a way for companies to buy growth when they have run out of ideas, but in this case, it is used to accelerate innovation and improve product offerings, particularly for highly specialized use cases (18m10s).
• The company sells software to highly specialized and complex use cases, such as Departments of Public Works, building and planning, and finance, which require a deep understanding of governmental accounting and bureaucratic processes (18m29s).
• The company's approach to M&A is influenced by John Chambers, who views M&A as a way to drive innovation, rather than just buying growth (17m57s).

Fundraising Challenges & Lessons Learned (18m52s)

• Building a successful product requires months or years of interactive work with customers, and getting the first few million dollars in revenue can take as long as growing from $5 million to $25 million (18m54s).
• Acquiring a company that has already achieved product-market fit can save years of work and capture tremendous subject matter expertise, allowing for increased investment in R&D (19m12s).
• Rippling is also gathering founders and acquiring companies with subject matter expertise, similar to the strategy of acquiring companies and doubling investment in R&D (19m45s).
• Disagreements with investors can occur, such as when the focus is on metrics like logos rather than revenue, and it's essential to understand what makes a "real company" (20m36s).
• In times of overspending and slowing growth, it's crucial to reassess the business model and focus on revenue growth, rather than just adding logos or users (21m15s).
• Losing the faith of the board can be challenging, and it's essential to demonstrate revenue growth and a clear understanding of the business model to regain confidence (21m26s).
• The company experienced a period of slow growth between $8 million and $20 million in revenue, with growth rates decreasing over time, indicating that it may not become a large company like Pinterest (21m45s).
• The company's spending to add $6 million in ARR was excessive, highlighting the need to reassess the business model and focus on efficient revenue growth (22m11s).
• Zachary Bookman expresses concerns about the high valuations and fundraising in the startup industry, citing examples of companies raising large amounts of money at high valuations, which he believes are unrealistic and will lead to dilution and difficulties in achieving desired returns (22m36s).
• He notes that most people do not understand how the $155 billion valuation works and that it will require significant additional fundraising, which will lead to dilution and increased costs (23m17s).
• Bookman defines product-market fit as making a customer successful, repeatably and profitably, and notes that there is ambiguity around this concept, with different definitions and interpretations (24m12s).
• He shares his personal experience of achieving product-market fit in 2002, but notes that it was not sustainable and required repositioning the company, which was a brutal process (23m59s).
• Bookman discusses the challenges of achieving product-market fit in vertical SaaS companies, where a single product may not be enough to achieve scale, and notes that a multi-product approach may be necessary to increase the total addressable market (24m55s).
• He also notes that the common approach of starting with a low-priced entry point and expanding to higher prices later often does not work, and that companies need to be realistic about their pricing and growth prospects (25m32s).
• Bookman emphasizes the importance of understanding the challenges and complexities of building a successful startup, and notes that it is a tough game that requires careful planning and execution (23m52s).
• To achieve product market fit, it's essential to focus on building a suite of products that are micro-focused and cater to a specific customer base, which requires simultaneously selling existing products while developing new ones (25m54s).
• Founders can increase their chances of finding product market fit by going crazy and selling their products aggressively, getting in front of customers and prospects, and engaging with them enthusiastically (26m41s).
• Iterating with customers is crucial, and it's essential to make the product resonate with a small segment of customers before expanding to a broader market (27m15s).
• Shrinking the Total Addressable Market (TAM) and focusing on a specific Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) can help entrepreneurs achieve growth, as it allows them to deliver a higher ROI on their time (27m47s).
• Expanding the product line can increase spend in the TAM, but it's challenging to know when the right time is to add secondary, third, fourth, or fifth products (29m15s).
• One of the biggest lessons is that the earlier the better to add new products, but it's essential to have discipline and focus on the ICP and product market fit segmentation (29m25s).
• Managing a company requires leadership and creating new products, which can sometimes be met with internal resistance, but it's essential for the company's growth and mission (29m35s).
• To maintain morale internally when growth feels flat, the CEO must give energy and lead by example, even in difficult personal times (30m28s).
• The CEO's role is to balance their own energy with the needs of employees, teammates, and customers, and to reassure them that the company will be okay, even in challenging times (30m31s).
• There have been times when the company's growth felt flat, and the CEO had to overcome personal struggles, such as the loss of a loved one, while still leading the company (30m44s).
• The CEO has doubted whether the company would work, feeling like they had made the worst decisions and destroyed their career, but they continued to push forward (31m16s).
• The CEO's experience in Afghanistan and their background in law and foreign policy did not prepare them for the challenges of running a company, leading to feelings of uncertainty and self-doubt (31m27s).
• The CEO's decision to continue with the company was motivated by a "burn the boats" mentality, where they had already made significant investments and had to see it through (31m50s).
• The easiest rounds of fundraising were the early ones, thanks to the credibility and network of co-founder Joe, but this also led to overspending on sales and marketing before the product was ready (32m8s).
• The company's early success was also due to unfair advantages, and without the support of investors like Loren Jobs and Glenn Capital, the company may not have survived its early years (32m34s).
• The company received bold investments from investors during tough times, but as the company progressed, it became more attractive for raising money, although the interest in raising money decreased due to the rejection and time-consuming process (32m50s).
• Raising money is not a significant value creator, and people often focus too much on valuations and hundreds of millions of dollars, which is irrelevant, as companies will be judged by their exit and liquidity (33m24s).
• Over-capitalizing a company can lead to a higher preferred stock stack, making it more dangerous for common stockholders, including management and employees (33m46s).
• The company's performance improved when it became cash flow positive and EBITDA positive, and it was better to maintain this state rather than returning to the days of relying on investments (34m1s).
• If given the chance to redo the journey, the decision would be to move faster, be more decisive, and make quicker decisions on removing non-performing employees, product decisions, and sales machine enablement (34m12s).
• Enterprise software companies reward intensity and focus, and the "Amp It Up" article by Slutman feels spot on in describing how these companies should work, emphasizing the importance of a philosophy that prioritizes intensity and focus (34m45s).

What Marc Andreessen Taught Me About Boards (35m0s)

• The primary role of a board is governance, ensuring there's no fraud, and the company is legitimate, with their main responsibilities being to hire and fire the CEO and represent the stockholders (35m20s).
• Boards can create natural conflicts, as the CEO's job is to grow the share price, deliver on the mission, and win for employees and customers, while also needing to win for stockholders (35m55s).
• The CEO needs to run board meetings, explain the direction, gather input, and make decisions using their independent judgment, as they have more facts than the board members (36m17s).
• Experienced CEOs understand that board members can have different opinions, and it's the CEO's job to form their own opinion and make decisions (36m38s).
• Having too many investors can create conflicts, and having a single investor can be beneficial in reducing conflicts and allowing the CEO to make decisions without external pressure (36m53s).
• If given the choice, the preference would be to have a single, partner-specific investor who is a well-known and reputable name in the industry, with a serious discussion about the CEO's role in running the company (38m0s).
• The choice of investor would be based on their returns and reputation, with a preference for investors like Sequoia, but also considering the value of long-standing relationships with existing investors like ATC and Thrive (38m12s).
• The decision to have a single investor or a small group of investors is influenced by the desire to reduce conflicts and maintain control over the company's direction and mission (37m50s).
• The goal is to build a long-term, mission-aligned company, and having a single investor or a small group of investors can help achieve this goal (37m52s).
• The experience of working with multiple investors and navigating their different opinions and expectations has been valuable in understanding the importance of having a clear vision and direction for the company (38m51s).

The OpenGov Acquisition: Selling for $1.8BN (39m21s)

• The company was sold to Cox Enterprises in February for $1.8 billion, with Cox being a large family business in Georgia that owns the largest private cable company in the United States and the largest automotive company outside of car manufacturers. (39m25s)
• The deal came about after the founder reached out to Cox Enterprises in August, suggesting they put down a term sheet for $2 billion, which the board would take seriously, and Cox produced a term sheet for $1.5 billion. (40m1s)
• The founder initially rejected the $1.5 billion offer, feeling it was too low, but the board was open to the deal, and after a five-month process, they agreed on the $1.8 billion sale price. (40m14s)
• At the time of the sale, the company's revenue was around $110-115 million, but it has since surpassed $150 million and is growing rapidly, with the deal being valued at around 15x revenue. (41m36s)
• The founder left a majority of their stake in the company, with the deal structured in a way that is supposedly common in the telecom and media industries, but innovative in the software and tech ecosystem. (42m2s)
• The deal involved the existing investors being cashed out, the board being shrunk from 8 to 4, and employees' vested equity being cashed out, with a large RSU pool remaining in place to attract and compensate talent. (42m25s)
• The deal also included defined liquidity at years 3, 4, and 5, with the founder having a put right to sell a third of their stake at year three, two-thirds at year four, and the entire stake at year five, and Cox having a call right to obtain 100% ownership of the company. (42m50s)
• The company's valuation and fundraising process can be misleading, as the actual value of the company is not always reflected in its valuation, and the fundraising process can be more about the investors' interests than the company's needs (43m20s).
• The speaker took out 49% of their vested equity in a secondary sale, which has reduced their anxiety levels and made them feel more secure, as they no longer have 98% of their net worth locked up in the company (43m40s).
• The speaker's family is now financially secure, and they can focus on the long-term vision of the company without the burden of financial stress (43m48s).
• The typical ownership structure of a growth-stage company is that investors own 75-85% of the company, while management, employees, and founders own the remainder (43m52s).
• The speaker disagrees with the old-school Silicon Valley mentality that keeping founders poor is necessary to motivate them, and believes that having some financial security can actually help founders make better decisions and take more risks (45m12s).
• The speaker had a board member who advised against selling equity, saying that if the founder sells, they will sell too, which the speaker found harsh and unrealistic (45m19s).
• The speaker believes that having some financial security can actually encourage entrepreneurs to think bigger and take more risks, rather than playing it safe and trying to conserve their wealth (46m11s).
• The speaker thinks that having a certain amount of wealth, such as $5-8 million, can make a person feel safe and secure, while having $20 million or more can give them the freedom to take bigger risks and pursue their long-term vision (46m46s).
• The concept of valuations and fundraising can be misleading, as people often get caught up in the idea that there's always something better or more desirable, whether it's a two-bedroom apartment in the suburbs or a flat in Mayfair overlooking the park (47m4s).
• Keeping grounded is essential, and this is one of the reasons why the company is proud of what they do, even if others find it boring (47m29s).
• Signing a major deal can be a wild and exhausting experience, with months of negotiations and a lot of pressure, as evidenced by the speaker's experience of spending six months on a deal and getting sick multiple times during the process (47m45s).
• The deal was initially supposed to close in January, but it got pushed back by a month, causing uncertainty and stress, and the speaker had to manage their adrenaline while on a pre-planned trip to Hawaii (48m35s).
• When the deal finally happened in February, the speaker was amped up and excited but also exhausted, and it took time to process and digest the experience (48m51s).
• The signing of the deal was a moment of tunnel vision execution, with many deliverables and variables to consider, and it required a lot of alignment from various people (49m15s).
• After the deal, the speaker spent a fair amount of time processing and digesting the experience, trying to reset and prepare for the next chapter (49m33s).
• Alex Taylor, the chairman of Cox, was involved in the announcement of the deal to employees, and the speaker was grateful for his support (48m54s).

Why Venture Capital is a S* Asset Class (49m43s)

• Venture capital is considered a challenging asset class that may not be particularly impressive, with many people disagreeing on its potential for returns (50m9s).
• The asset class is not expected to perform well in 2021, with potentially bad numbers and a "shitty vintage," and some investors may be artificially keeping numbers high (49m52s).
• Private companies as a whole are also not impressive, and many people who invest in them may not have the necessary statistics to back up their claims (50m19s).
• Venture funds typically take 15 to 20 years to distribute money, unless they sell secondary assets at a discount, making it hard for investors to see returns (50m42s).
• The last few years have been particularly bad for venture capital, with many investors making poor investments and some companies committing fraud (51m4s).
• Some investors have lost money due to entrepreneurs who lack morals or lose their way in the pursuit of success (52m1s).
• It's essential for investors to focus on distributions and uninvested capital rather than internal rate of return (IRR) based on other funds marking things up to impress their limited partners (LPs) (52m18s).
• Considering the challenges in private investments, some investors are reevaluating their portfolios and considering investing in public markets, such as the S&P 500 (52m42s).
• One piece of advice is to invest in established companies or indexes rather than trying to beat the market, as it's extremely hard to do so over the long term (53m8s).
• Founders Fund's advice is to invest in companies that have already proven themselves, rather than trying to find the next big thing (53m14s).
• Some investors have respect for certain funds, such as the one run by Ran and Trey, but may regret investing in other funds that have not performed well (53m30s).
• Making fewer investments can be a good strategy, especially when it comes to private companies, and it's essential to be cautious when investing in friends' or acquaintances' companies (53m53s).

Spicy Questions (53m58s)

• The worst pitch experience was with Peter Teal, where the presenter was laughed at for wearing a button-down shirt and leather shoes, which didn't fit in with the founders' style at the time (54m37s).
• Another bad pitch experience was with Mike Meritz, where the presenter could tell something was off and Meritz walked them out without looking them in the eye, which brought up bad feelings (55m25s).
• The presenter took out $1,000 in cash, which is the amount of the donation for answering the question (56m9s).
• The worst thing about having Marc Andreessen on the board is that he's tough and focused on governance and investor interests, which made the relationship more business-like and less warm (56m19s).
• An example of Marc Andreessen's strict approach was when he left a board meeting exactly on time, without waiting for the discussion to finish, and sent a message to the presenter to manage the meeting time and stay in control (57m1s).

Quick-Fire Round (57m36s)

• Snap judgments are valuable and should be listened to, as they often provide an immediate answer to a question or decision, and this is especially important for executives making big decisions, whether it's personnel-related or otherwise (57m43s).
• The importance of listening to one's gut feeling is emphasized, and it's suggested that taking time to reflect on a decision, away from distractions, can help clarify one's thoughts and feelings (57m55s).
• Having a child can be a life-changing experience, and it's essential to be in the right mindset and have the right partner to navigate this significant change (58m24s).
• Experiential learning is crucial, as people often don't fully understand or appreciate advice until they experience it firsthand (59m0s).
• Unmade decisions can be a significant burden, and it's essential to address them to move forward (59m14s).
• The decision to sell a company or pursue an IPO can be a significant one, and it's natural to wonder what would have happened if a different path had been chosen (59m24s).
• The idea of pursuing a different path in life, such as getting married at a younger age or making different career choices, can be intriguing, but it's impossible to know how things would have turned out (59m47s).
• The decision to go public or stay private is influenced by the need to deliver returns to investors, and companies like Stripe and DataBricks are raising large private rounds to address secondary sales and tax issues (1h1m8s).
• Many companies have raised a ton of money and will eventually need liquidity, which will likely come from going public, possibly in 2026, as the markets open up and these companies end up going public (1h1m22s).
• There is value in promoting from within and hiring people who are geniuses, want to work hard, and have a growth mindset, rather than hiring executives with a playbook from prior companies (1h1m52s).
• If given the opportunity, it would be interesting to be the CEO of a company like Workday or Microsoft for a day, as they are in the Enterprise software industry, but it would take a lot of time to understand their business and growth levers (1h2m37s).
• When considering investments in Open AI, 160, XAI, or Anthropic, it's generally not a good idea to invest against Elon Musk, and Open AI seems like a good investment, with a 60% chance of crushing it and becoming a world-changing trillion-dollar company (1h3m23s).
• Mary Meeker believes that Open AI has a 60% chance of success, 20% chance of going sideways, and 10-20% chance of failing, but it's likely that Microsoft will acquire the company, making the investment a relatively safe bet (1h3m44s).
• When writing a check with real money, it's different from investing with other people's money, and it's essential to consider the risks and potential returns, such as the 80% chance of success and the potential for a $50 billion acquisition (1h4m51s).
• Josh is writing a billion-dollar check, and there are very few places where one can see a 3-5x return on that bigger check, with companies like Databricks being an example (1h5m2s).
• The conversation shifted to personal struggles, with the expectation of discussing the guest's upbringing and personal life, but it didn't happen initially (1h5m24s).
• The guest, Zach, grew up in a difficult home life with a severely alcoholic mother and parents who got divorced after years of a "home war zone" (1h6m2s).
• This challenging upbringing is a common trait among entrepreneurs, driving them to prove themselves as good enough or worthy (1h6m20s).
• Selling helped Zach feel more worthy, and having a sense of security from his financial success has been helpful in making him feel safe, which he never felt during his childhood (1h6m45s).
• Zach never felt safe at home and had to work from a young age, pinching pennies and counting his earnings, which has given him a sense of security now (1h7m5s).
• Despite this, Zach acknowledges that money doesn't produce happiness, and he still needs to work on his personal growth, possibly by attending the Hoffman process (1h7m46s).
• Zach is not yet at a point where he can relax, as he is still working hard to take his company to the next level, feeling a sense of responsibility towards his employees, customers, and shareholders (1h8m5s).
• As a result, Zach is completely mission-obsessed and feels like he is on a treadmill, working daily and hourly, including most weekends and nights (1h8m11s).
• The conversation revolves around the idea that building a successful career is a long-term game, requiring immense dedication and hard work, with one person noting that it's a "knife fight" where one must be one of the hardest working individuals to succeed (1h8m55s).
• The concept of burnout is discussed, with the idea that if one starts working at a young age and never takes a break, they may not know what's outside their current environment or have a chance to experience life beyond their work (1h9m21s).
• The idea of taking a step back and re-evaluating priorities is mentioned, with one person noting that they have more money than they used to, but that's not the most important thing; instead, it's about doing great work with people they love and feeling proud of their accomplishments (1h10m27s).
• The importance of mental stimulation and relevance is highlighted, with the example of someone who retired early but continued to work and have a higher quality of life due to the stimulation and social interaction (1h11m21s).
• The benefits of continuous mental activity and social interaction are discussed, with the idea that these factors can contribute to a higher quality of life, even in older age (1h11m55s).
• The shift to remote work is mentioned, with one person noting that they made the transition in 2020 and it has been challenging, but they are learning from the experience (1h12m10s).
• Katherine emphasized the importance of companies returning to the office, which initially seemed outdated, but ultimately proved to be correct in terms of collaboration and productivity (1h12m35s).
• The transition back to the office has been painful, but the alternative of not returning to the office can lead to disaffection and disconnection among employees (1h12m56s).
• Thiago, a key leader, noted that people who think they are happier working from home often end up quitting shortly after, as they feel disconnected from their colleagues and the company (1h13m5s).
• The lack of human interaction and collaboration while working from home can be detrimental to employees, as it is not natural to work in isolation without opportunities for whiteboarding, talking, and socializing (1h13m25s).
• The company has shifted its direction to prioritize in-office work, with the understanding that remote and virtual work arrangements are not as effective for collaboration and productivity (1h13m41s).